💭 Gherardo Felloni for ODDA Magazine
In just under three years, Gherardo Felloni, the creative director of Roger Vivier, has put a new spring in the step of one of the world’s most famous souliers. Since his arrival at the French house, Felloni has given Vivier a fresh joie de vivre with his introduction of the first-ever Vivier sneaker, his unforgettable fashion week collection presentations, and his cinematic style of brand storytelling. Felloni’s infectious positive attitude and his light-hearted approach to shoemaking are however grounded in over 20 years of designing footwear for some of the biggest luxury brands, including Prada and Dior. Not to mention his father and uncle are also shoemakers. For Felloni fashionable footwear is a way of life.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
GHERARDO FELLONI
In just under three years, Gherardo Felloni, the creative director of Roger Vivier, has put a new spring in the step of one of the world’s most famous souliers. Since his arrival at the French house, Felloni has given Vivier a fresh joie de vivre with his introduction of the first-ever Vivier sneaker, his unforgettable fashion week collection presentations, and his cinematic style of brand storytelling. Felloni’s infectious positive attitude and his light-hearted approach to shoemaking are however grounded in over 20 years of designing footwear for some of the biggest luxury brands, including Prada and Dior. Not to mention his father and uncle are also shoemakers. For Felloni fashionable footwear is a way of life.
Portrait by PIERRE EMMANUEL TESTARD @BeaumondeParis, Grooming RICHARD BLANDEL @WebmasterB-Agency
JESSICA MICHAULT. In Tuscany, where you grew up, you were surrounded by the world of shoe design. Do you feel like it was always your calling? And what were the big lessons you learned from your uncle and father, who were shoemakers, during those early formative years?
GHERARDO FELLONI. For me, it isn't easy to describe when the passion became alive. I grew up in a shoe factory. My uncle and father had a shoe factory since 1958. They used to work on shoes for luxury brands. So my passion for shoes has always been there. So it is actually really difficult to determine the moment where it became a passion, it was just always a part of me. From my uncle, the biggest lesson that I learned was that shoes have to be comfortable because you always have to remember that there is going to be a foot inside them. If your feet aren’t comfortable then you can’t really be happy. That is something that my uncle was really attached to. From my father, one of the biggest lessons that I learned was that you cannot force someone to do something they cannot do. You have to take the best from everyone on your team and use those talents so that they do their best work for you.
JM. Before joining Roger Vivier you worked with Miuccia Prada and John Galliano. What did your time working with both those houses teach you?
GF. I started with Prada and it was a big privilege to be there, it was completely another world than what I had known before. Then I worked for Dior with both John [Galliano] and Raf Simons. The experience was quite eclectic. One thing I learned during that time, working at those houses, was that sometimes I was too sure of myself. On one hand, this was a good thing because I was confident but at a certain point, sometimes that confidence can lead you to make something that was wrong. Wrong in fashion means you can do something that is sometimes too far in advance, or too old. Sometimes I would propose things that were out of the blue, way out of context. One of the important things in fashion for me is the context because I do not want to make fashion political at all. But fashion is the manifestation of the society we are living in. It is really important to be attached to reality in a way.
JM. When you joined Roger Vivier it already had a pretty famous origins story and your predecessor had been at the house for over 15 years. What did you feel was your biggest challenge stepping into those shoes as the new creative director?
GF. In the beginning, I was scared. But even though I was scared I still tried to get this job because it was my dream. Finally, I decided to just act as usual because I had over 20 years of experience. I have realized after all these years that the best thing to do is to approach fashion with your own taste. You have to be happy with your product, and you have to be convinced. That makes things real, consistent, and people will understand. Someone may not like what you propose but they will understand that you did it with your heart and vision.
JM. What I love about your tenure at the house is how playful and fun it has become. You seem to take having fun with the footwear very seriously.
GF. It is the same in show business and movies. When you have to communicate something funny, something happy, it is the most difficult thing to do. It is a projection. I think fashion is linked to happiness because we are selling dreams. For me, it is more challenging to do something fun than something serious. In the last year, fashion lost a bit of its sense of humor. For me, I am not taking myself seriously in any case.
“I have realized after all these years that the best thing to do is to approach fashion with your own taste. You have to be happy with your product, and you have to be convinced. That makes things real, consistent, and people will understand. Someone may not like what you propose but they will understand that you did it with your heart and vision.”
JM. Your Hotel Vivier presentations during Paris Fashion Week have always been a highlight of the week; so much fun and energy. Why was that sort of outlandish presentation important for you?
GF. When I proposed the idea, everyone looked at me like I was crazy. But I thought that I had to do what I liked so people would understand and enjoy it. I did not have a silhouette because I did not have ready to wear. It was really crucial for the shoes to be linked with the silhouette and body. So I hired actresses to wear the shoes at the presentations instead of models because we needed the character that actresses bring. We needed what they had inside. Everybody was shocked but I had the chance to show what was in my mind. I like women that do something, not just their bodies. They are powerful. We have to be linked with that.
JM. One key element that you have brought to the house is a real cinematic flair for storytelling with lots of enticing little videos. Tell me more about the thinking behind this approach to connecting with your customer.
GF. The idea of a cinematic point of view comes from two reasons. One, because I really love cinema and acting. It feels like it is in my DNA. Two, I believe that in the code of Vivier is cinema. These kinds of shoes change the silhouette. I think that Roger Vivier’s mainstream success comes from movies. So I thought let’s go back to the basics, let’s start with a cinematic point of view to tell the new Roger Vivier story.
JM. In terms of the way you work, how do you like to create? Do you have tricks to get you in the creative mood?
GF. I am really basic. It means that I work on a train, plane, alone, or in a team. For me, it is really natural. There isn’t anything that I really need or feel that is important for me to start sketching shoe designs. Sometimes I ask myself why this is, how is it possible that I can just start sketching anywhere, anytime. But I think it is because I started really young in this business. When I was 18 years old I could draw 100 pairs of shoes in a day. Even if I have someone in front of me that is in the middle of demolishing a wall, I can still do my job. I feel that this skill is actually what makes it possible for me to continue to do this job. It comes from me easily, which is good because being the creative director of Roger Vivier today is so much more than just designing the shoes. I have so much more to do, so if I couldn’t design in any situation it would make this job a lot harder.
JM. Tell me, what was the reaction like when you announced that you would be launching the first-ever Roger Vivier sneaker, the Viv’ Run?
GF. The reaction was really cool because it was one of our best sellers. I think it is a beautiful sneaker and one of the first shoes that I drew for Vivier. It was a Christmas holiday and I did not start my job here at Roger Vivier until the next February. I was thinking of something that Vivier missed, and that was the running shoe. Today the running shoe is something that is normal. So to be contemporary you need it because it is something women wear. That is the beautiful thing about women today, there are so many women in one. Today, you wear sneakers because you need to walk somewhere but tomorrow you are going to dress up in super high heels. This is what I love about my job, getting to create shoes for all women and all the different things they do.
JM. Roger Vivier’s shoes have been worn by some of the world’s most beautiful and powerful women. Who are the new Vivier women who you feel embody your vision for the house?
GF. This question for me is silly because it is contradictory to say that I have a muse, which is really easy in fashion to say. I have this curiosity that goes in all directions. I am not interested in one particular type of woman for Roger Vivier. Of course, these women can understand the value of the shoes and bags we are selling. But their features do not matter, what they look like doesn't matter, I am really clear about this. But I do love women who have a job and do something. I love when they are self-realized. That is why it is easy to find women for Vivier.
“I do love women who have a job and do something. I love when they are self-realized. That is why it is easy to find women for Vivier.”
JM. Besides your love of shoes, what other passions do you have?
GF. I studied opera for years, I did a conservatory here in Paris. I am a tenor. But I stopped singing because I have too many things to do now. But I studied music, and I would love to be a composer, but for now, that is not possible. I also have a large antique jewelry collection. I have been wearing antique jewelry for over 20 years, long before it was fashionable, or even acceptable for men to wear jewelry. Otherwise, I like gardening, I am lucky enough to have a garden in Paris and I do it all by myself. I also love interior design and many other things, but those are the top ones.
JM. How has the pandemic affected you and your work? How are you remaining positive during this time?
GF. We are in a bad moment, but in the history books, there were worse times. I want to be positive. The pandemic is very heavy but it can be worse. That is the positive attitude. It is a sanitary problem but I think the social problem is going to be bigger after this pandemic. Now, I start to think that this pandemic has a big social impact. It changed something in us, for example now when you see someone touch someone it is scary. So I am curious to see how this pandemic will affect us socially, in our relationships, in the future.
JM. Ok, but when we can all come together again, what is the first thing you want to do?
GF. In my job, I will start to go back to the office often because I like to work here with my people. I will do a new show with Vivier because you feel something that you cannot feel digitally, so that is important to me. For me personally, I want to go to swimming pools and restaurants. Simple pleasures. History is really scary, and you cannot predict the future either. But if you look at the past, it was like this before. After a moment like this, people become unified.
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by CHARLENE FRETT
Photographer SANTIAGO SIERRA SOLER
Creative director DAVID MARTIN
Fashion editor SHARON CHITRIT
Casting director KEGAN WEBB
Model TEDDY QUINLIVAN and JULIE HARDIN @VisionLA, JAMES BAEK @SelectModelManagamentLA, NAYTHAN COTNE @Photogenics, and SKYLER CARON @LAModels
Make-up artist FRANCESCA MARTIN using CHANEL BEAUTY
Hair stylist LISA-MARIE POWELL using R+CO BLEU
Producer ABIGAIL JONES
Photographer assistant DANIEL VAN DER DEEN
Fashion assistant ARIANA VELAZQUEZ
💭 Andie MacDowell for ODDA Magazine
Long-distance soul sisters actress Andie MacDowell and acclaimed author Anne Lamott connect online for a powerful and heartfelt conversation. Where they share openly and freely about their experiences of co-dependent childhoods caring for alcoholic parents and how they have used their artistic voices to work through the pain of the past. How spirituality and a connection to nature and animals have helped them to heal and their hopes for their children and the future.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
ANDIE MacDOWELL
Long-distance soul sisters actress Andie MacDowell and acclaimed author Anne Lamott connect online for a powerful and heartfelt conversation. Where they share openly and freely about their experiences of co-dependent childhoods caring for alcoholic parents and how they have used their artistic voices to work through the pain of the past. How spirituality and a connection to nature and animals have helped them to heal and their hopes for their children and the future.
ANNE LAMOTT: I think we should start off with a little prayer Andie.
ANDIE MACDOWELL: Awhh you might make me cry, but go for it! It might make me calm down.
A.L. Alright, let’s have a deep cleansing breath. Close our eyes and settle down into our hearts and our center and out of our crazy pinball machine minds. Mother, father, God, source, and creator, and sustainer we are your very loving daughters who have loved each other for a long time, but are just meeting now. So my prayer is that today I just get to know my sister, and I want to let her get to know me. And I hope that what we say will be of help to people who read this someday, who might be feeling weak or ashamed or alone. I just pray that our words might be bread for the journey for whoever ends up hearing us today and we just thank you in advance for all of your tender mercies so far and still to come and for helping us figure this out as we go.
A.M. Thank you so much, Anne! You did make me cry...so much for the makeup job! (laughing).
A.L. Andie, I feel like we know each other because we have loved each other for so long, even though we have never met. One time, a couple of years ago, I was raising money to help girls in Uganda learn how to do electrical repairs and how to repair cars and I put out the word that we needed money, and I couldn’t believe that you sent me so much!
A.M. Oh, I should have sent more!
“My kids get it, they see how much fear there is in my body. That I panic a lot. They understand where that comes from. But I feel bad because they have had to take care of me, in some sense and that is just the repercussions of the damage that was done to me.”
A.L. No, no... but, I realized that you and I are on the same path, that by giving, we receive. I was so blown away by how much you gave us, that was like the equivalent of three months of teaching girls and women how to have futures! They were able to start brand new chapters of their lives.
A.M. Yeah, when you are doing stuff like that, and you hear what these women are doing, it really puts stuff in perspective, doesn’t it? It is like all the things that I am worried about just become so small. But you know my experience of that moment, being in my loneliness and having you communicate with me through Twitter was so touching to me. That is one of the interesting things I think about technology, especially now with COVID, because I am kind of a lonely soul and I am not a hugely social person and I feel inadequate in so many ways. But I see people on Instagram and I can talk to them that way. I find that fascinating, that you can actually, I mean I met you and first talked to you through Twitter!
A.L. It was your heart talking to me and my heart talking to you because we couldn’t be together in a physical space. Because we are fond of each other and bonded in some way, it just makes me believe that the space-time continuum is not all it is cracked up to be. We have some kind of umbilical connection. I have never gotten to hug you or kiss you, or take a bite of your food, but we will. And in the meantime, there was this other thing, outside the continuum, where we just fully rocked each other.
A.M. But I think so much of that comes from your books. You found a soul sister in me because in your books you are so real and so honest. And you are so self-deprecating and funny and you are not ashamed to show that you are not perfect and that you make mistakes. I have just re-listened to three of your books, and there is this one part where you talk about having thoughts about wanting to jump off of a building, and a priest says to you “who doesn’t”. I thought that was so funny and charming because I have a lot of those neuroses inside of me, like neurotic thoughts. Like when I moved to Venice Beach in California, there are these tsunami signs all over the place and I became very obsessed with the idea that I was going to be caught up in a tsunami, I almost felt like the ocean was going to suck me in.
A.L. I wouldn’t call it neurotic behavior, I think it is how we survived having parents that were so damaged. We both grew up around alcoholism. I had unhappy parents, there was alcoholism and blackbelt level co-dependence and I was this perfect little girl. I am 67 next month and I have spent my whole life recovering from perfectionism because it is the voice of the oppressor, the voice of the enemy. Because when I was 5 years old and my baby brother was born, I felt like I was handed a clipboard and I was handed a caseload. I had to help dad not drink too much and not have affairs. I had to help my mother who was very very heavy, and I had an older brother who was unhappy with me and I had this little baby to take care of too. And one of my survival tools, besides trying to save and fix and rescue them all with my little clipboard, was to anticipate what might go wrong. And I remember being at the dentist office in this tall building in San Francisco when I was a little, back when you could still open the windows, and I remember being drawn to the open window in the waiting room, and I could feel some energy pulling me towards the open window. I remember digging my heels into the ground and holding onto the chair I was sitting in to keep me from going to the window. But all of these survival tools I learned as a kid are what I have spent most of my life trying to heal from.
A.M. Yes, I can totally relate, I have a lot of PTSD. Right after I was born, my mother was diagnosed with schizophrenia and they gave her shock treatments. I was taken away from her when I was very young, so who knows what that did to me psychologically. When she came back she became a full-blown alcoholic, that is how she dealt with her issues, there was no support system or real resources back then. Now we are much more compassionate with people who have these kinds of issues. And with my kids, we talk about all kinds of stuff, there is none of the shame that there was back then when everything was so hush-hush. So I feel like we are evolving as humans. My kids get it, they see how much fear there is in my body, that I panic a lot. They understand where that comes from. But I feel bad because they have had to take care of me, in some sense, and that is just the repercussions of the damage that was done to me. I have so many horrible memories. But I tell my kids, “you can do better. Each generation can do better, you can have a better family.”
And it is so interesting because the role that I am playing now in this new series I am shooting, called “Maid”, the character’s name is Paula, and my mother’s name is Paula and in the script, she is manic depressive. That is not really what my mother was, but there are components and pieces that I understand.
A.L. Tell me more about this Paula that you are inhabiting now.
A.M. Well, what is really interesting is I have a really great relationship with all of my kids, but I was shocked when I got the call that my youngest daughter [actress Margaret Qualley] wanted to work with me. Because she has been so independent of me, she really wanted to make her own way in the business, because people have this tendency to take your power away, and people would say things to her like “it’s been easy for you”. She is really good at accepting the fact that she has had privilege, she is such a smart young lady. She is really brilliant and really with it. But honestly, it doesn’t really work that way, yes she might get the door open, because of me, but that is as far as it goes, you know, you have to be able to do it, do the work, and that is up to her, I can’t do it for her. So I was so surprised when she wanted to work with me on this project. Plus the job is such a great job, and it is a big job, with Netflix and the director John Wells. And the character is unbelievable! Once I read the script I was like “Oh God I can’t believe I have been given this gift”. The writing is really good - it’s a dark comedy which is really my comfortable place. And getting to dig into some scenes that are really really vulnerable and not always nice was amazing. My character is often the life of the party and she is really out there and her thinking is very bright and interesting. She is very dynamic and powerful and overly sexual, extremely overly sexual, that is her force that makes her feel ok! And my daughter’s character is the opposite, so it’s a really interesting dynamic.
A.L. So I want to ask you a bit about growing up in the deep south and how that determined who you grew up to be, both good and bad.
A.M. It was interesting. Because my mother didn’t pay any attention to me when I was little. I was very very free and I got to do what I wanted to do from a very young age and I would spend most of my time outside and barefoot doing whatever I wanted to do. Back behind my house was an old Antebellum house and I would go over there as a kid and play. And we had another neighbor, he was a sweet man and he ended up having a stroke so he was bedridden and couldn’t speak. My sister and I would go over there as kids and we would dance for him. I think we had kindness in our hearts but I also think there was a bit of morbid fascination as well, you know, we were children. And I remember his wife was just lovely. But the guy with the Antebellum house, I found out later he was part of the KKK, and I remember these little Black children would come by on their bicycles and I was completely terrified and I would run up the hill and tell them to be careful and not to come around this man. Some of the stuff that I saw as a child, that the rest of my family had no idea I was seeing, was fascinating. So there is this kind of mixture, when I look back on my childhood, of happiness and darkness all mixed together.
A.L. I wanted to know if you would feel comfortable talking about your spiritual evolution and how you on a daily basis do radical self-care and tend to your own soul?
A.M. I should probably do more. But what I do is I hike every day. I am not good at meditating. I can’t sit down and stay still. I think that is leftover anxiety stuff. I always need to keep busy, you know, clean the shelves and stuff like that. But I walk every day and I think that is how I pray. And what I try to do is not get lost in my head, but to stay present, to hear the birds, and to see the sun and the sky. I try not to take a mental trip somewhere else. I also love doing yoga. But I have a question for you - you got married for the first time in your sixties, what was that like? Because I am 62 and I have been alone for so long now I can’t even imagine sharing the bed anymore. I really like sleeping alone, I like taking up all the space. I am so independent now I just don’t know if I could do it….
A.L. You know, all truth is paradox…. I got married three days after I got Medicare. I mean I didn’t see a lot of happy marriages that I would agree to be in, which was the main thing for me. I mostly see marriages where the wife takes on a lot more of everything. Not just the housework but she ends up being the therapist, and the minister, and the sex worker, and of course raising the children. I also was not very good at picking men. And with Neal [Allen], we met on a dating site for people over 50. And the thing is, he is allergic to cats, and my whole life is cats. So I thought to myself “well I don’t want to be with him because he could never come to my house and I hate to leave my house and I prefer to be alone”.
A.M. Me too!
A.L. And he likes to be with people and he likes to talk. Whereas I can go days without talking. I just read. But he told me this trick, if you put Brewer’s yeast in the kibble that would help with the allergies. So then after about a year of dating - and he is so funny and smart and handsome and tall and spiritual - one day he just turned to me and asked me to marry him. I was so shocked. And the thing is, we had just lost our old cat and so I said to him, well can we get another cat? And he said ok, so then I said: “ok I’ll marry you!.”
In conversation with ANNE LAMOTT
Conversation curated by JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by EMMELEIA DALIWAN
Photographer JUSTIN ARANHA
Fashion editor MARIAELENA MORELLI
Creative director DAVID MARTIN
Make-up artist and hair stylist ANYA ELLIS @LizbellAgency
Photographer assistant PATRICK MENARD
Fashion assistants EMILY GRAY @LizbellAgency and ROBERTA CONSOLE
Special thanks to NANCY AND LOUIS from THRULINE
💭 Cyrill Gutsch for ODDA Magazine
Cyrill Gutsch is the visionary founder of the company Parley for the Oceans, an organization dedicated to leveraging a community of creators, innovators, and decision-makers to help raise awareness about the fragile state of the world's oceans. Gutsch is leveraging his network of big thinkers to come up with, and implement, outside the box strategies that have a singular goal, saving the seas. Ian Urbina, the Pulitzer winning investigative journalist, has spent years on the high seas reporting on the lawlessness that exists offshore. That experience resulted in the book “The Outlaw Ocean,” which was recently purchased by Netflix and Leonardo DiCaprio. Both men are drawn to the big blue as a place of beauty, danger, loneliness, and freedom. But most of all its critical role in the future of humanity on this planet.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
CYRILL GUTSCH
Cyrill Gutsch is the visionary founder of the company Parley for the Oceans, an organization dedicated to leveraging a community of creators, innovators, and decision-makers to help raise awareness about the fragile state of the world's oceans. Gutsch is leveraging his network of big thinkers to come up with, and implement, outside the box strategies that have a singular goal, saving the seas. Ian Urbina, the Pulitzer winning investigative journalist, has spent years on the high seas reporting on the lawlessness that exists offshore. That experience resulted in the book “The Outlaw Ocean,” which was recently purchased by Netflix and Leonardo DiCaprio. Both men are drawn to the big blue as a place of beauty, danger, loneliness, and freedom. But most of all its critical role in the future of humanity on this planet.
CYRILL GUTSCH. Do you remember the moment when we first connected, when you had just come back from your investigation and landed in the Maldives?
IAN URBINA. This crazy German guy I knew started texting me when I barely made it with my photographer out of Somalia. We had gotten caught in a really tough bind and on the way back to U.A.E. and on the flight, I got a text from this guy named Cyrill saying I was needed in the Maldives. I didn't even know where the Maldives were. I was pretty fried and it was quite a contrast to go from Mogadishu to the gorgeous place in the Maldives where Cyrill was soon to be setting up a Parley center.
CG. For some, the ocean is a symbol of peace. We connect remote beaches to the perfect holiday. On the other hand, it is one of the most violent places on earth. Can you describe that space, “The Outlaw Ocean,” this place without laws that you see in contrast to what people usually see at sea?
IU. I don’t mean to undermine the first part of what you said, because it is no less true in the context of my reporting. It is true that the ocean is this existentially gorgeous place. It is beautifully different and through literature, philosophy, and law you can see in history how the ocean was always a place where people got away from life to open their horizons. All of those things are true but because it has always been that and it has always been culturally and legally protected like that, it is this extra-legal space, especially the high-sea that has been defined as this separate space like the atmosphere or Antarctica that don’t belong to anyone, yet belong to all of us. Also, just because of the geography of the space it would be difficult to enforce someone owning a part of it. For all of those reasons, the extra-legal nature of it means that you can do whatever you want and get away with it much easier than you would be able to on land. There is no one out there to stop you. Most people are good and do not engage in bad behavior, but those who do engage in it can do it without real worry.
CG. Technically, it would be possible to see everything that is happening at sea. There are listening devices, satellites, and all types of technology. Where do you think there is that lack of motivation who is watching to interfere with crimes on the high-sea?
IU. I think that you are quite right. The technology is there to see everything out there. It is still fairly expensive. Not for the developed north, but for the rest of the undeveloped countries, it is completely out of reach for governments, citizens, or companies to afford that level of monitoring. But that could change too if there was more collective will to put more satellites up there and to make the satellites more affordable. What is lacking is the centralized will. The nature of politics, governments, the turnover rate of governments. The fact that the organizations that deal with the ocean lack a lobby. The people that work with water generally lack lawyers and journalists that represent their interests. On the opposing side, the ones who want to industrially extract the ocean have a lot of motivations. All of those things put barriers on the government monitoring the ocean although the technology is very much there.
CG. I opened the conference in South Korea about the ocean and they only talked about how they could exploit the sea. I suggested that they should just give the sea a break. I expected that they would throw me out of the room but they applauded me. The defense minister told me that they knew that there was not much fish out there and had many vessels coming back empty. There is a harsh reality that we are this super predator. How do you see the state of the ocean and how life is out there in your eyes?
IU. In some ways, if you look at the historical arc of fishing in the last three decades, it has moved almost from hunting to agriculture because of the advances in technology. In the old days, it was as much an art as it was a science. A good fishing captain would have all sorts of specialized wisdom about the best and often secretive techniques. Now, the key advances have been engines in their efficiency, cold storage for the fish, and filament strength of nets. Also, the sonar and satellite technology means that there is no mystery as to where the fish are. All those things mean that commercial fishing has become dangerously efficient, unsustainably efficient. The extraction that is occurring is way outpacing the replenishment. Personally, I would love to hear about the status of this amazing thing you are doing in the Maldives with Parley.
CG. It was very interesting for us because we started working in the Maldives five years ago. It was the first government that signed a membership agreement with Parley. The president came to New York and we announced together that we are going to turn the Maldives into a future island nation. The idea was to cut down the use of fossil fuels to constitute a battle against climate change. The damage is obvious. The president committed to becoming a champion of fighting against marine plastic pollution as well. This country was really oversaturated with trash. There is debris everywhere. We agreed on a very aggressive agenda and they are moving forward quite well. We consult them on how to change laws, we work with local industry, and the tourism industry as well. We really want to make the country a role model but it is rough. It is a small country with only 500,000 people living there and it is still rough to change a country fast. We want to tackle the problems of marine pollution, but also at some point climate change and illegal fishing. What was remarkable is that in 2020, in the midst of the pandemic, we were able to secure an agreement with the World Bank. They endorsed our strategy, “Parley AIR.” “Avoid, Intercept, and Redesign.” These three pillars to fight marine plastic pollution. Together, we declared war on marine plastic pollution in South Asia with 10 countries on board. That was a big milestone for us. Suddenly, we are able to think globally. We are able to talk to people who can actually change the fate of a country and we have access to funding in a totally different dimension. It comes with a new challenge of navigating that type of administration that we are not so used to.
IU. Pivot for a second, and talk to me about when you do a partnership with corporate players, such as Adidas. Specifically you work on really investigating, improving, and innovating the supply chains within companies.
CG. All the environmental issues that we face today are caused by the economy. It is business really that is creating these problems. Narrowing it down, it is the materials and production methods. When you want to drive change at a rapid speed, you have to approach it in a systematic way. Our approach is to go forward with these things called epicenters. We pick potential champions in these industries and turn them around. The rest of the industry has to follow or else they are losing competitive advantage. Even if they don’t realize why they should help, they have to, or else they are being outperformed. That is exactly what we needed to prove. It took us two years to negotiate a contract with Adidas. The end of last year marked five years of our partnership.
Suddenly, a brand becomes a corporate activist that has carried ending plastic as their main campaign where Parley became their main strategic partner. The cause of fighting plastic suddenly was embedded in the business model and that is new. Suddenly, brands stand up and don’t just give a donation. They say that they could be part of a new economy where the purpose is the core of our DNA. That has not happened before on this large scale. This caused a drastic shift in how shareholders look at their entities. What happened in the last five years, is that the conversation really went towards what is the true footprint of our organization. What is the impact that we could have? That is what we need. We need to establish a new business standard, a new idea of why we are doing business. We need to establish new criteria for quality and success.
IU. I have seen a lot of things that feel like major and cultural intellectual shifts that have come from the pandemic. One is from a work perspective, that we have to telecommunicate and realize that it is possible to travel less and also think a little bit about the wasted time in engaging in certain work formalities. Also, since I work on human rights and labor out at sea, a lot of common denominators of all those crimes is a sense of distance and isolation. We all have experienced these ideas through the pandemic and we now have a keener sense of what it feels like to be cut off from each other. When I talk to people about the experience at sea, people can relate more. Those are two small ways in which I have noticed a difference.
CG. I see that people actually become aware that they love nature. They realized that they did not show enough respect in the past and they are craving nature now. They want to see themselves back out there. People appreciate the natural world more and they are consuming content about the natural world. On the other hand, some people also associate the pandemic with that situation. They feel like it pushed nature to the wall.
When I look at the industry, I see way more interest and honestly way more sincere interest to become part of Parley. The conversations are very different. In general, the environmental movement had a lot of traction before the pandemic but now it will be in the foreground. We learned that we are seeking purpose, and we want to be surrounded by people who are responsible. We want to support brands that stand for a cause. We don’t want to waste our time anymore supporting superficial emptiness.
“The extra-legal nature of [the oceans] means that you can do whatever you want and get away with it much easier than you would be able to on land. There is no one out there to stop you. Most people are good and do not engage in bad behavior, but those who do engage in it can do it without real worry.”
IU. If the last four years showed us anything, I think that the next one or two years will show that radical, global action is possible. I don’t think that you’d be able to say that you could stop the economy and make everyone wear masks in 30-60 days yet the pandemic has happened and drastic things have happened. I think that we will see an acceleration of that with the new administration and with the presence of vaccines. Generally, the global public is more aware of doing more radical things if the stakes were high enough.
CG. It was kind of a drill. We faced a global event that everyone on this planet had to experience. You cannot buy yourself out of it. Suddenly, we learned that we can respond to that. We can put trillions of dollars out and restrict things that we thought were not possible before. We can do that with the crisis we face now, the collapse of the natural world which ultimately means the collapse of our species. Even small changes are creating a very big discomfort and can even drive us into extinction.
But I think it is all about being optimistic. It is not about being overwhelmed and scared. Let go of fear and allow the possibility. That is the first thing everybody can do. Try to allow the new and be open to it and support it. With fear, we won’t succeed. The only way I see is to move out of this by accepting the challenge and allow new technology. We have to support alternatives even though they are not perfected at this moment. Cut into this behavior that has brought us here. We live a very wasteful lifestyle that pretends resources are endless.
IU. I would add that it is important to step back and question who you are. We all wear many different hats and in each of those costumes, you have a role to play. It does not have to be grandeur but a conversation with your son or spouse or a check to an organization that helps out are all things that can more proactively help out in small ways. If you just try to think of those in those different capacities and push yourself in each of them it adds up.
CG. As a creative, you are sensitive to things. For a very long time, I felt that there was no way that this planet was going to survive us. We are so selfish. I was very cynical about it. Then I learned that this is a very cowardly mindset. I could use my skills and the creative industry could contribute to solving these crises. The most important thing I learned is that I have a role to play and that I had to find my place in the movement. Also, it is extremely fulfilling to be part of a movement and you don’t have to solve these problems alone. I feel like the creative industry has a very important part to play because these problems are based on the economy which is based on technology, communication, and design. We, the creators, need to own the environmental movement and own the responsibility of it instead of pushing it to people who run corporations. The most important thing is the man in the mirror. Leadership today is all about declaring ownership of problems and really addressing them hard.
“The most important thing I learned is that I have a role to play and that I had to find my place in the movement. Also, it is extremely fulfilling to be part of a movement and you don’t have to solve these problems alone.”
In conversation with IAN URBINA
Conversation curated by JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by DOMINIC CELEMEN
Photographer DAMIEN FRY
💭 24kGoldn for ODDA Magazine
2020 was a very good year for the 20-year-old rapper, singer, and songwriter 24kGoldn. His earworm of a song “Mood” had, by the end of the year, spent eight weeks at No.1 on the Billboard Hot 100 between its original version, which featured Iann Dior, and the remix that worked in vocals from Justin Bieber and J. Balvin. 24kGoldn, who is taking a leave of absence from his full ride at the University of Southern California for Business Studies, is also in the early stages of setting up a scripted tv series about his life and his debut album “El Dorado'' is set to drop by April. All of which is to say 24kGoldn is currently living his best life.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
24KGOLDN
2020 was a very good year for the 20-year-old rapper, singer, and songwriter 24kGoldn. His earworm of a song “Mood” had, by the end of the year, spent eight weeks at No.1 on the Billboard Hot 100 between its original version, which featured Iann Dior, and the remix that worked in vocals from Justin Bieber and J. Balvin. 24kGoldn, who is taking a leave of absence from his full ride at the University of Southern California for Business Studies, is also in the early stages of setting up a scripted tv series about his life and his debut album “El Dorado'' is set to drop by April. All of which is to say 24kGoldn is currently living his best life.
JESSICA MICHAULT. When did the idea of becoming a singer really come into play for you?
24KGOLDN. It is such a tiered question because I feel like I was surrounded by music my whole life. When I was a baby, my mom and dad sang harmonies to me of Michael Jackson songs. Music was always there. I was always encouraged to sing and express myself through my voice. But it was not until I was 15, during my sophomore year of high school, when I had already linked up with my mentor, Paypa Boy, and he gave me the opportunity to record music for the first time, that things really got serious. I never wrote music at first. I started rapping a year prior, but Paypa Boy taught me how to write.
JM. Talk to me about the cultural dynamic between your parents; your father is Black and Catholic and your mother is white and Jewish. How did that impact the way you express yourself as an artist?
24K. For some people, when their parents are so different, that can be a cause of tension within their family dynamics. In my house, that was never an issue. It was about whoever had the best way for our child’s development. My parents were not overly religious in the first place, it was more about the culture and remembering to connect with spirituality. I think dealing with that duality growing up gave me a lot of perspectives, that there is not just one correct way of doing something. There are often many correct ways of doing something. The way this affects my music is that there is no one right way to make a rap song or a pop song. I am just making songs and letting it flow. I think that openness to combination, spin-offs, and variation comes from such an open-minded background.
JM. Your attitude is very joyful and positive. Where does this come from?
24K. I have always been very optimistic. From those early days of elementary school, my teachers always told me to act right or else the other kids will just do what you do. I was always encouraged to be that shining light in whatever room that I walked into. I think the way I am now is just a continuation of that. That is something that never changed within me. The light is better than the darkness to me even when we do deal with those dark situations. Everyone has their problems and struggles but you can look at them optimistically or think that it is all over. It is not always easy to pick the first option because life is hard.
JM. 2020 has been a tough year for most people. But it's been a year of major successes and wins for you. What has that been like, to have so much positivity come into your life in such a difficult year?
24K. I had a little bit of survivor’s remorse because everyone around me is going through a lot but my music was very successful. It was a weird dynamic. I never questioned the virus that much in the beginning, I put my head down and worked through it. But it's true that I don't even get to enjoy the fruits of my labors, essentially.
JM. Yes, but you did get to perform at “Dick Clark’s Rockin’ New Years Eve.” What was that like?
24K. That was dope because I remember watching that with my parents ever since I was a little kid. At the risk of sounding ungrateful, I appreciate all those moments but I want the real-life experience. I grew up in an internet age, but I have always been a real-life experience kind of person. So this year has been the most challenging time period for me.
JM. What was the biggest “I can’t believe I’m here” moment?
24K. Whenever someone asks me what my most memorable moment as an artist has been, I still go back to that 2019 Bay Area Rolling Loud performance I did. I am from the Bay Area and that was my second Rolling Loud. The first one I did, right across the street from the school I went to, USC, had about 50 people show up. Boom, six months later I am back in my hometown and I have one of the most lit sets of Rolling Loud that year. It was surreal, going from having 50 people watch me to having 3,000 to 5,000 people watch me live in a matter of months was mind-blowing to me. That is still the moment that resonates with me the most.
JM. What makes a “lit” set? What do you have to do to get the crowd rolling?
24K. Honestly, I was wildin’ out. I brought girls up the stage to twerk, one of them kicked off the stage lights and I did not realize it until after. I like to stage dive at my shows, throw water, basically all the things that venues hate.
JM. You attained a full ride to the University of Southern California for Business Studies. Do you still have that business mindset? Do you still think about stuff like investing for your retirement?
24K. 90 percent of the time my head is on straight in the financial aspect. But that 10 percent of the time when I just wild out because it is whatever and who cares. Most of the time I am definitely responsible with my money. I do not live beyond my means. The way I describe it is the basketball game of 21. In 21, once you get past 13 points the lowest you can get knocked down to is that number 13. But the whole journey up there points 10, 11, 12, is extremely important because you can get knocked down all the way from 12 to zero. Until I get to that point of financial comfortability, there is definitely a part of me that is scared that I did not make it all the way yet.
“The light is better than the darkness to me even when we do deal with those dark situations. Everyone has their problems and struggles but you can look at them optimistically or think that it is all over. It is not always easy to pick the first option because life is hard.”
JM. You do a lot of collaborations. Who is on your bucket list to collaborate with next?
24K. Young Thug, Billie Eilish, and Drake. Those are my top three right now.
JM. “El Dorado,” your debut album, is coming out when?
24K. I just got the date from my label yesterday. I would say late March, early April. I have 10 songs but I want to make the project 13 songs. That is my lucky number. I have 10 songs that I really like for the album but some stuff needs some additional work. I got those extra three songs that I have to figure out too. I made a lot of music in this process, probably around 40 or 50 more songs. I am really picky, I am learning about myself, and especially since it is my debut album, I want to make sure I put my best and true foot forward.
JM. How are you defining how you want to represent yourself in your first album?
24K. That is the challenge of being a very genre-fluent artist. You have so many different types of fans. The fanbase is one, but it is also very segmented. The people who like “VALENTINO” might not necessarily be the same people that like “CITY OF ANGELS”. For me, it is important to create a project that is inclusive to all the different types of people that enjoy my music. It is inclusive to everybody, but not sacrificing any quality. The first 10 songs were easy, but those last couple ones were very difficult. Maybe it is not trying to compete with your own music, but about exploring your music and vibes.
JM. You have a song called “VALENTINO” and one called “Coco,” there are a lot of fashion references in your work. If you could go to any fashion show, who would you want to sit front row in?
24K. That is a very difficult question. I like Virgil’s Louis Vuitton collections, but it is more about certain pieces that stand out the most to me. Everyone likes Virgil’s collections but when everyone else starts to like something I start to not like it as much. But because of the environment and world that he creates at his fashion shows, I think that Virgil’s would be the fashion show that I would go to.
“For me, it is important to create a project that is inclusive to all the different types of people that enjoy my music. It is inclusive to everybody, but not sacrificing any quality.”
JM. I hear there is talk about a television series. Is that true?
24K. I just did a pitch meeting a couple of days ago. But it is this scripted show called “Golden” which is about my life. I do not know if a lot of people know this but when I first signed my deal and left college, I did not immediately move into an apartment or anything. That summer between being “college Golden”and superstar 24kGoldn I was living at my friend’s house in L.A. I am this kid from one of the poorest spots in one of the most expensive cities in the world that got a full scholarship to USC, got a full record deal, dropped out of school, and then moved into one of the craziest guest houses that I have ever lived in my life. I am just there the whole summer doing me. That fish out of water experience was a crazy idea to pitch. It is like “Fresh Prince of Bel-Air” meets “Entourage.”
JM. How has the Black Lives Matter movement impacted you as a person, and your music?
24K. I think that it shifted more of my sense of urgency rather than my music or my beliefs. I have always been an advocate for my people ever since my freshman year of high school. We were doing all these events so it has always been an issue that I was passionate about. But after going to those protests and experiencing everything that came as a result of the killings clicked in my urgency. It made me realize that I am not just a kid anymore. I have a platform and I can use this platform to deeply impact people’s lives and potentially change their perspective on how they see things. My demographic is a lot of younger people and they look up to social media stars, artists, and actors to be their moral compass and guide. Like Uncle Ben in “Spiderman” said, “With great power comes great responsibility.” Now I know that I have a lot of power and it is my job to change the world to be the way that I want it to be and one that I want to live in.
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by CHARLENE FRETT
Photographer HARRY EELMAN
Fashion editor SHARON CHITRIT
All by LOUIS VUITTON MENSWEAR S/S 2021
💭 Kris Van Assche and Brian Rochefort for ODDA Magazine
For the first time during his tenure as the creative director of Berluti designer Kris Van Assche collaborated with a living artist to bring his SS21 menswear collection to life. And it was the colorful, textural, and freeform art pieces by the highly respected American ceramic artist Brian Rochefort that caught Van Assche's eye. An avid ceramics collector, Van Assche was able to reinterpret Rochefort’s bold and layered vision into silk prints shirts, three-dimensional knitted sweaters, and rich patinated leather Berluti accessories. The result is an elevated collection where artists, artistry, and the artisanal are celebrated in perfect harmony.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
KRIS VAN ASSCHE AND BRIAN ROCHEFORT
For the first time during his tenure as the creative director of Berluti designer Kris Van Assche collaborated with a living artist to bring his SS21 menswear collection to life. And it was the colorful, textural, and freeform art pieces by the highly respected American ceramic artist Brian Rochefort that caught Van Assche's eye. An avid ceramics collector, Van Assche was able to reinterpret Rochefort’s bold and layered vision into silk prints shirts, three-dimensional knitted sweaters, and rich patinated leather Berluti accessories. The result is an elevated collection where artists, artistry, and the artisanal are celebrated in perfect harmony.
JESSICA MICHAULT. Talk to me about how you first discovered each other’s work.
KRIS VAN ASSCHE. I was interested in ceramics for many years. I started out with French ceramics from the 50s which was very in-line with the type of design that I love. I was into that for a long time. 50s ceramics are very beautiful but there is something restrained about it. What I really loved when I came across Brian’s work was the liberty and freedom that jumps at the eye. I had seen quite a bit of it over the years and then there was this major exhibition in London at the end of 2019. That was the first time that I saw such a big group of work together which made me really want to do something. That was the turning point for me. First, it was just about having the piece of it at my house but then I realized that it could become something else.
BRIAN ROCHEFORT. I knew about the brands that Kris was associated with, but I did not know Kris by name. I knew at the time that he was following me on social media but I came to know him through research that he was highly regarded because of his past work. I have a lot of friends in the fashion industry. All I had to do was call them up and they told me it would be a great opportunity for me. That is how I got familiar with Kris.
JM. In relation to ceramics, what is it about the medium that calls to you?
BR. I think it is good to understand my background. I am 35 and I have been doing ceramics full-time since I was 14 years old. Every semester throughout high school and college I got a degree in ceramics. Subsequently, I gained a fellowship, became a teacher, and now a full-time artist. So I have been doing this for so long and I am very passionate about it. Ceramics are very popular right now, but it is still unexplored. That is my goal with the material, to push it as far as possible. I come at the medium with a very expressive technique and approach. Color and texture are my things. Although it is very meticulous, I try to make it as expressive and wild as possible. I feel like I am pushing the boundaries a bit with the material, that is why my work is getting a lot of attention. I want to dissect the material, formulate my own glazes, and manipulate the chemicals to do something that is totally wild or not used in the traditional way.
KVA. I grew up in a very traditional family, I do not come from an artistic background. I knew at 12 or 13, that I really wanted to get into fashion, which was a weird thing within my family. Then I ended up going to the academy, then I learned about fashion, then fashion photography, then photography in general. Design came somewhere in the process. It is like a snowball that keeps on rolling. Through design came ceramics. The more our world becomes more digital, the more I like the human aspect of ceramics. In a very different way, that is why I used to like working with tailors. Every sleeve is done by hand and there are no two tailors in the world that will make the same type of sleeve. I am very sensitive to the human side of things. Brian’s work is very much about that, it really makes sense as an evolution.
“I am more solitary and this is the first time that I have worked in a collaboration of this scale. But I became very comfortable with it because it keeps things interesting for me, it was very refreshing to have another artist at the table.”
JM. You talk about artisan creation, yet your first collaboration at Berluti happened during the pandemic. Talk to me about that experience, dynamic, and if that hindered anything.
KVA. When I reached out to Brian, I had already one piece of his work in my collection so I could touch it. The truth about it is that we had no idea that we were heading towards a pandemic when we started this project. When I reached out to Brian, I thought that we were going to have a fashion show, I thought that it was going to be business as usual. I had been working for fashion for over 20 years and this never happened. It was not necessarily a big problem because what I like about Brian is the color explosion which was going to be the main focus. There is the artisanal approach which is Berluti and there is the artistic approach which is Brian. In that sense, it made sense to do it as the first collaboration. The first two years at Berluti for me was figuring out what my relationship between me and the brand was going to be. After two years, I felt quite comfortable that there was room for a third person at the table. There is something that I love about craft, but it tends to be difficult to push out of your comfort zone. That is where it is really nice to have an artistic influence, like Brian, and confronting them on their reactions to certain things. A good thing about Brian is that he works with a very good photographer and he has a very good way of documenting his work. That was a really good tool for us to work with. We gave the images to everyone working on it and it was an interesting work process that got the ball rolling, which is interesting because it is pushing people’s buttons.
“I am a pretty quiet guy but I create these very wild and colorful sculptures. I have always been that way. From what I have heard from other people is that maybe it is my alter-ego. Maybe it is a different part of me that is trying to escape.”
JM. Brian, did this collection push your buttons? Did you feel like you were surrendering your work for other people to have input on or did you feel like you were in control in terms of the back and forth in the work process?
BR. There was not too much back and forth. I pretty much surrendered all of my pictures to Kris and his team. I did not really push any particular image or piece onto Kris. I trusted him with whatever he needed. I submitted 80 images or so to choose from and he sent me some preliminary designs later on and I did not have any issue with them. I did not feel like I was in any position to do that either. I did my part by making these objects and Kris is the master of his craft and his own boss. There was no conflict whatsoever. I felt very comfortable doing it, that is why I signed up. If there was any hesitation, then it would be a different collaboration.
JM. Do you have the Berluti and Brian Rochefort collection now to enjoy?
BR. I do have one piece that Kris sent me which is the tote bag. It is the first piece that I have seen in real life and the details are amazing. I saw the layering and palpability in the images that Kris sent but when you see it in real life there is so much variation in sheen and texture. But I do know which ones I am going to get [when the collection arrives in the stores]. I am going to buy a bunch of stuff just to have forever. It is a really important project to me so I want to get as much as possible.
JM. Talk to me more about the challenges and surprises that went on and this collection.
KVA. It was definitely a challenging working process. Part of what we do as creative people is trying stuff, especially when you have a starting point such as Brian’s work. You want to go to all types of people and try to develop as much as possible. A big part of work is teamwork, I try to provoke things from creative people and see what we can get from what I throw at them. But all at once, all of that was put on hold. I realized that we would not be able to produce a collection as big as usual. I had to constantly select and edit my own work without being able to try it first, that was the case for the whole thing. It was very frustrating, but also quite interesting. It reminded me a little of when I used to have my own label where I had to edit really early in the process. It brings me back to certain moments of being a student. It is not the ideal way of working. But in the end, that did allow for the collection to come out great and I was happy about it but it is a frustrating way of working.
JM. Brian, your working process seems like a one-man show type of process. Are you on your own and what was this collaboration like in relation to your usual way of working?
BR. I work by myself in my studio. Even pre-pandemic, I had an assistant but I hardly required them. I really enjoyed being by myself in my own studio. I think that I will be working by myself as long as possible. The restrictions right now are size limitations. My sculptures are big and heavy so I have to lift them by myself so sometimes I have to get some help. One of the most difficult things is getting feedback during the pandemic. It is hard to get honest feedback from artist friends because they never want to give their honest opinion because they are afraid they are going to lose a friend. That is definitely a difficult thing as an independent artist, not having assistants around to pick their brains which a lot of big artists do. I am a pretty quiet guy but I create these very wild and colorful sculptures. I have always been that way. From what I have heard from other people is that maybe it is my alter-ego. Maybe it is a different part of me that is trying to escape.
JM. What were your biggest takeaways from this collection?
BR. There was a lot. For personal reasons, it was really exciting to expand my work and to see it in a different context. When I went to my school of design, they had a huge fashion & apparel department. I never even thought that I would dabble in it until Kris invited me to do this project. To see my work in this field is totally crazy. It is very exciting and it happened so quickly. When I first went into this agreement, I did not know how big of a project it would be and the extent Kris would bring it to with the storefronts and the designs he would produce. That was really exciting for me to see as an upcoming artist.
JM. Kris, how does it feel for you to be in the position to use the might and history of Berluti to give it as a platform to Brian to share his work with the world?
KVA. I do not see it like that, because Brian definitely does not need that. Brian has his own world and he does not need this publicity. For me, the pleasure about all of this is the conversations that happened. I am very comfortable with all this. I am similar in how I work, I am more solitary and this is the first time that I have worked in a collaboration of this scale. But I became very comfortable with it because it keeps things interesting for me, it was very refreshing to have another artist at the table. Although it might be a stretch to connect Berluti and Brian’s work, it was really well-received and that exceeded my expectations.
JM. With the rhythm of fashion shows, what was it like to not have that deadline on your back and be able to express yourself in such a different way?
KVA. I like fashion shows and I definitely feel that the risk of the current situation, judging everyone through a screen allows people to get away with a lot of crap. This situation is a risk for luxury because you cannot touch or see it in movement, there is too much that cannot be appreciated. It really narrows down the differences between high-end and mainstream. It is a high risk for brands like Berluti because you need to understand that difference. I am very frustrated about that and I hope that this will not last too long. I have surprised myself by enjoying making the video. I do not usually like to show people how work is done, I usually like to show the end result. But in June, it seemed like the best thing to do. I was surprised that I enjoyed explaining the work and that was something positive about this because we are able to have these types of deeper conversations.
In conversation with BRIAN ROCHEFORT
Conversation curated by JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by DOMINIC CELEMEN
Photographer CHRIS KONTOS
Fashion editor GEORGIA TAL
Casting director DAVID MARTIN
Model OLIVER HOULBY @NewMadison
Grooming by CHRISTOS BAIRABAS @BeehiveArtists using AVEDA and BUMBLE AND BUMBLE
Fashion assistant ÉLIE MERVEILLE
💭 Gelitin for ODDA Magazine
In a freewheeling conversation that featured both nudity and urination, the collective known as Gelitin, which consists of four Austrian artists named Wolfgang Gantner, Florian Reither, Ali Janka, and Tobias Urban, took time out from their latest project to discuss their illustrious and outrageous career. It’s a history that is rooted in the idea of collaboration, not only between the four men, who first met at a summer camp in 1978, but also between the art they create and the audience that is encouraged to interact with it. And in doing so, transform the pieces in ways even the artists couldn’t have imagined.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
WOLFGANG GANTNER, FLORIAN REITHER, ALI JANKA, AND TOBIAS URBAN
In a freewheeling conversation that featured both nudity and urination, the collective known as Gelitin, which consists of four Austrian artists named Wolfgang Gantner, Florian Reither, Ali Janka, and Tobias Urban, took time out from their latest project to discuss their illustrious and outrageous career. It’s a history that is rooted in the idea of collaboration, not only between the four men, who first met at a summer camp in 1978, but also between the art they create and the audience that is encouraged to interact with it. And in doing so, transform the pieces in ways even the artists couldn’t have imagined.
JESSICA MICHAULT. I’m going to start with a very generic, classic question. The famous origin story is that the four of you met in a summer camp in the late 1970s. I get the feeling, having looked at all your art, that you’ve never really left summer camp, the four of you. This kind of play and exploration is in all the work that you do. Would you say you’ve been existing in summer camp all of these years?
FLORIAN REITHER. Now, it’s more winter camp.
ALI JANKA. Or indoor camp.
F.R. Yeah, you could also say it’s just camp, without summer or winter.
A.J. Or cluster camp.
F.R. Yeah, now it’s cluster camp.
J.M. I don’t know if I’m going to even ask you to elaborate on that cluster reference. I wanted to know how have you been able to maintain that youthful exploration, that sense of play, into your adulthood.
TOBIAS URBAN. It’s a very difficult job, you have to do it every day and most people just stop doing it because they’re so lazy. But you should try it a little bit, it’s not so difficult.
F.R. I often play with myself too, because it’s often so joyful.
A.J. There’s nothing else to do, I’m not good at anything else.
J.M. This is going to be a fun conversation, I can tell already. The whole theme of this issue is “YOU” and I wanted to talk about what each of you brings to your collective collaboration.
A.J. I have the credit card.
T.U. I’m the one in the bush [hiding behind a plant].
F.R. I’m the one who likes to play with himself.
WOLFGANG GANTNER. I’m the guy who-- (gets cut off) I never talk.
J.M. You’re killing me! I’m loving this. Okay. You’re going to love this next question I can feel it already. Here we go. There is this premise in quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, that says that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality. That concept came to my mind when I was researching your work. So much of the work that you do brings the audience participation into what you do, thus changing the art you create. Why is including the audience so important to you creatively?
W.G. We don’t do it for ourselves. I think without an audience it’s not possible. Like they’re a part of it.
T.U. The audience participation for me, I think it’s a little bit like a technique. It's like paint or something. It’s like material. We don’t do it to entertain the audience but, you know, when they participate it gives you moments of surprise.
A.J. For me, art is a conversation. If you don’t have a conversation with somebody then what’s the point of it. And it’s nice to have a conversation with other people than just by yourself.
F.R. A friend of ours, once introduced this idea to us, talking about this participative moment in our art as the threshold. Like creating spaces where you cross a threshold and then maybe we are not hierarchical, we don’t tell anybody what to do. But we like to open possibilities so people can behave differently.
J.M. Some of the pieces that you have done like “Arc de Triomphe,” one of my personal favorites, and “Human Elevator,” you did early in your career and then redid it later in your career. What was that like to revisit pieces from the past, and rethink them and present them in a new way?
W.G. On the last “Arc de Triomphe” presentation, there was a boy in the audience and he said to his mother “Tonight I’m going to do that at home.” That was surprising, that was a little surprising moment. And the mother tried to tell the boy that it’s not a good idea to do it. But a friend of ours who was standing nearby whispered to the boy “Just do it, don’t tell your mom. Just do it. Do it on your own. It’s a good idea.” It’s very small, but that was a surprising move.
On the last “Human Elevator” presentation, we had a minister riding it as a passenger. And when he went through, all the boys in the scaffoldings said “Good evening Mister Minister.” That was probably more surprising to him.
“We really like to do things when you start thinking about it and talking about it with some people and their first reaction is and people say “You can’t do that! That’s impossible! You can’t do that!” That develops a thrill and we think “Why not? Let’s try it. Let’s do it.””
J.M. You have used your rectums, your anuses, in a number of your art pieces and presentations. You have painted things with bushes held by your butts and then hung them on the walls of museums. You have also done pieces that are lifelike sculptures of poop and the urine bed, I thought the urine icicle you create in Moscow was quite cool. What is it about the nether region, let’s put that in that way, that you guys like to put in front of peoples’ faces?
A.J. It’s a good anchor to anchor some stuff. Unlike paintbrushes and stuff. You always have it with you, you don’t have to buy anything.
W.G. The idea with the Moscow piece was with the [urine] icicle, the big icicle was the idea to make audience participation possible on a very wide range. So, you can come there, all you need to do is be able to pee. That’s enough to participate. You don’t have to recite a poem, sing a song, go onstage. You just pee and it contributes to the beauty of the sculpture.
F.R. You contribute by emptying yourself and by that you create something together.
J.M. So everybody’s an artist?
W.G. Everybody contributes…
A.J. Be part of something bigger.
W.G. Yeah, be part of something bigger.
J.M. I want to know what it was like to sleep on the urine bed. Did any of you guys try that out? What was that like?
F.R. It was, I mean there was so much urine in there that it was heavy, big, and heated to body temperature. Like a water bed but warmer, like 30 degrees something [Celcius] and when you enter the room you realize there is a living thing in there. We thought like "Wow, why does this feel like…” it felt like a cow or elephant standing in the room because of the radiation of the heat of that much water.
W.G. The water basically had the mass of two cows, so you basically came into a small room and there was a huge something that has body temperature and it was possible to feel its presence...
F.R. From a distance.
W.G. Like an alien that is with you in the room that radiates not 50 degrees [Celcius] but really body temperature and lying on it was cool. Like you would like to lay on something that is alive because it has exactly the same temperature as yourself.
J.M. So we’ve talked about urine, we’ve talked about feces, we’ve talked about the participation of the audience coming into it. There’s another aspect that I’ve picked up on from your work is that…
A.J. ... It relates to every person and shape that everybody can relate to. It’s not gender, it doesn’t have anything to do with race, it brings everybody together. I think “shit” is a great thing to bring everybody together. A great form for a sculpture to bring everybody together.
J.M. So you’re talking about basically what's left, the shit and the urine, what's left after we have used up as much as we can? So there is that idea in some of your work, that message of decay, of the leftover. I’m thinking, of course, about your “Rabbit” art piece. The last pictures I saw were from 2011, I don't even know if there’s anything left to the rabbit that has been slowly decaying since you put it out there. Or “The Fall” exhibition you put on, where you had the pieces that would break apart and become something different through being destroyed. What is it about transformation over time that appeals to you?
T.U. For us, the interest is not so much in the biological process like the decaying. We are artists so we think about form or sculpture. We are not biologists. We’re not really interested in that. But when you think about sculpture... Do they always have to last forever? How would it change?
F.R. There’s something slightly uncanny that happened with the “Rabbit.” After we saw it, after the first year, things started growing on it and it was oozing this brown liquid and you could see this pink toilet paper. Because first, you make it a thing that looks like roadkill with the intestines spilling out. And then you come one year later and all of a sudden it really is roadkill. It’s really dead and transforming into somebody else’s loss. It sort of became real through the rotting.
J.M. Alright, guys so tell me about the nudity. What is that all about? Even in this interview nudity has played a huge role [all four artists were naked from the waist down]. Why is that such an important element in your creative process?
A.J. It makes us more ridiculous and more approachable I think.
J.M. We can’t do this interview without talking about your “The B-Thing” art happening that you created at the World Trade Center, where you opened a window and created a balcony on the 91st floor. You did this just months before 9/11. How do you all feel about that project? In relation to how it will forever be connected to that event which was, of course, never part of your intention.
A.J. That event kind of made it impossible to show this work for 15 years because of being connected to that. I mean it’s bad. Not bad in the sense that “It is a bad artwork” but connected to that. The others might disagree.
W.G. We didn’t show it for some time. But that wasn’t our decision; it was like institutions did not want to deal with the thing in some way but it's difficult for us because we don’t want to interpret it, our own work, that’s the job of other people, I think. I mean we did what we did and it had a very high-class, visionary moment.
T.U. The way we did it, we weren’t really looking for publicity. Very simple.
A.J. And it was the first thing that came to our minds when we stepped into that room.
F.R. This building needs to be opened, perhaps you can take the window off. So, of course, it was the thing we needed to do.
J.M. Let in some fresh air.
T.U. It was not really possible to look outside. We were high above, you couldn’t see the landscape, you couldn’t see above the windows because it was so narrow.
J.M. What was it like for all four of you to step out there? Did all four of you step out?
W.G. Yes.
F.R. All of us together.
J.M. I don’t think I could’ve done that.
W.G. Very, very sexy. It’s a very good feeling.
J.M. I bet it stirred some things up.
W.G. Yeah, it's not comparable to anything else. It feels very special, really good. We really like to do things when you start thinking about it and talking about it with some people and their first reaction is and people say “You can't do that! That's impossible! You can't do that!” That develops a thrill and we think “Why not? Let's try it. Let's do it.”
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by EMMELEIA DALIWAN
Images courtesy of GELITIN
💭 Derek Blasberg for ODDA Magazine
It has been a steep learning curve for Derek Blasberg at YouTube. But he hit the ground running. In the little over two years since the fashion insider took on the brand new role of Head of Fashion and Beauty at YouTube he has launched the YouTube Fashion vertical on the site, connected big-name luxury brands with big-name YouTube creators and he gave Naomi Campbell a global platform to be, well, Naomi Campbell. A classically trained journalist who has written for all of the top fashion publications, from Style.com and Interview to Vanity Fair and Harper’s Bazaar, Blasberg has fully embraced the new narrative of his career, where instead of recounting peoples stories he is empowering them to tell them themselves.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
DEREK BLASBERG
It has been a steep learning curve for Derek Blasberg at YouTube. But he hit the ground running. In the little over two years since the fashion insider took on the brand new role of Head of Fashion and Beauty at YouTube he has launched the YouTube Fashion vertical on the site, connected big-name luxury brands with big-name YouTube creators and he gave Naomi Campbell a global platform to be, well, Naomi Campbell. A classically trained journalist who has written for all of the top fashion publications, from Style.com and Interview to Vanity Fair and Harper’s Bazaar, Blasberg has fully embraced the new narrative of his career, where instead of recounting peoples stories he is empowering them to tell them themselves.
JESSICA MICHAULT. Let’s start with this: Derek, you didn't want to do this interview until after the election in the U.S., which I thought was an interesting thought process as this is going to come out in, you know, February or the beginning of March for most people. So why was it so important to you to make sure that it was past the election before we spoke?
DEREK BLASBERG. When you work, and I don’t know if you felt this way, because you're obviously not in the States at the moment, but it's the idea of trying to focus on anything apart from the Inauguration, and the safe and considerate transfer of power. You know, after January 6th. Between those two Wednesdays, the 6th would be the riot on the Capitol, a week later, the following Wednesday, was the second impeachment and the following Wednesday was the Inauguration. It's just like, I can't talk about fashion right now. This is crazy. And of course, also, when you work at a company like YouTube or you work in Big Tech in general, you want to make sure that everything that you're working on is accurate and up to date. There were, of course, so many conversations, especially in the tech space around everything that Trump was doing. And then, the other reason that I was happy to wait until the Inauguration is because I definitely thought there'd be a new sense of normalcy and goodwill.
“Essentially what I do now at YouTube, instead of translating those people’s stories into the written word for me to publish in newspapers and magazines, I now work with them to tell their own stories on their own channels, and videos.”
J.M. So I have to ask Derek, where does that charisma of yours come from? You seem to become friends with everyone you meet. Where does this kind of ability to be everybody's best friend come from?
D.B. Well, thank you. That's a very indulgent and sweet and feel-good question. I guess I’ve never, kind of, fleshed that out but I've always been an extrovert. I was a chatty kid, super social by nature. But I guess fundamentally, what it all comes down to, my whole life and career, my personal life, my professional life, is that I grew up in St. Louis, Missouri. I was pre-digital. I was starved for the glitz and glamour and the art and for this world that I'm so fortunate to live in now. You know, I didn't meet a gay person until I moved to New York. To me, fashion was the mall, and then when you move to New York, you realize in New York City, the fashion industry is a $10 billion dollar industry. It's the real world. So when I got to New York, I knew that's what I wanted to do. And I was so enthusiastic and thrilled to be there. I think it's kind of easier now for young people because if you are in St. Louis, Missouri today, and you're 16/17/18, you can Google what a stylist is or you can go on Vogue's YouTube channel and you can see behind the scenes. So there are definitely now easier touch-points for young people to encounter the world of fashion, beauty, and style. It took me a little longer to find it and then when I did I said I'm not going anywhere, this is where I want to be.
J.M. I get it. I feel really blessed that I was able to experience the age of old media, pre all of this, pre-social, YouTube and Google, and able to experience both sides of the coin. But I wanted to know what that was like for you because you were like me, a journalist by trade, you came up in the old way of doing things, and then just to switch over to YouTube. What was that culture shock like for you?
D.B. So I went to NYU, I have a degree in journalism. I thought I was going to work in newspapers or magazines my whole life. Something that I know you can relate to is I really idolized Suzy Menkes, I wanted to write for a newspaper and do trend reports and designer interviews. And so when the opportunity to sort of shift more into social media and tech came, to be very candid and honest with you, when the job opportunity to be the first-ever Head of Fashion and Beauty at YouTube came across my desk I was a little suspicious or even dismissive. You know, I said, this is not what I went to college for. And then the more I kind of wrapped my head around it, I realized what I was so excited about doing when I was graduating college, was working with fashion designers, telling model’s stories, and working with hairstyles and makeup artists. And that's essentially what I do now at YouTube, instead of translating those people’s stories into the written word for me to publish in newspapers and magazines, I now work with them to tell their own stories on their own channels, and videos. So I'm still working with designers and models and hairstyles and makeup artists. I'm just doing it in a way that when I was in college, I never thought I would or even fantasize being possible.
J.M. Your role at YouTube is a completely new one, that you make into what you want. So what, for you, was the goal?
D.B. I guess like in the most simplistic of terms. I saw this job opportunity as to how to create more, better fashion and beauty content. As I dug into the job a little bit more, I realized that one of the biggest things that I needed to do was help reeducate fashion beauty brands as to what worked well on YouTube.
J.M. So tell me about that, because I think that that's still quite a steep learning curve for a lot of brands. As much as the beauty world seems to really get YouTube, I think that the fashion world is still kind of on its heels as far as leveraging the power of YouTube.
D.B. I often think that most fashion people assume that what works well on all digital platforms is short, quick, and pretty. We see a lot of content that comes through, that's like about a minute long, maybe 30 seconds, it's a pretty girl walking on the beach holding a nice bag, and that content does well on other platforms. But on YouTube, people are coming to see a story, to learn a lesson, to reveal a secret. There are cases for longer, shorter and other formats, but typically, to sum up, what works well on YouTube and a single sentence - It’s content that's around 6 to 10 minutes of narrative-driven personality-full storytelling that teaches a lesson, reveals a secret or offers a service.
J.M. Talk to me a little bit more about your tenure, because it's only been two years. You're getting your bearings that first year, your feet underneath you, figuring out what works and what doesn't. And then by year two, we’re in a pandemic, and the whole world is shifting. Now you have a captive audience. How did you pivot what you’d maybe started to outline as your strategy to the new normal?
D.B. So I began my job in June 2018 and in September 2018, I was still very fresh and brand new but I wanted to hit the ground running. We did a big launch party in Paris, at the official residence of the U.S. ambassador. And that September we live-streamed on YouTube, about 20 shows. So fast forward to September 2020, so exactly two years later, we live-streamed more than 200 shows. More than half of which were first time YouTubers.Those were channels that we helped set up and helped launch. So we're definitely looking at incredible growth. At the base level of participation, we launched YouTube Fashion which has grown to become the largest aggregate of style video content around the world. Of course, no one saw a viral pandemic crippling the entire world and making travel unsafe and congregating in large groups unsafe. But it was incredible to have the YouTube Fashion vertical up and running for 2020.
J.M. Okay, so let's get to the nitty-gritty here. How did you convince Naomi Campbell to embrace YouTube with such a passion and fever?
D.B. Well, the good news is that I knew Naomi before I came to YouTube, so that helped. But honestly, the way that she was convinced to open her whole world to YouTube was that... number one at YouTube, you own your own content. You're your own producer, you're your own editor, your own director. If you want an upload every day for a month and then take a hiatus for a year, you can do that. You're really in charge, and you own everything, and you have final cut and final approval and everything. You know, on other streaming services, that’s really not the case. The YouTube business model is much different than at Netflix or Hulu or Amazon. At YouTube, you are in charge and you make your money and your influence on a longer tailwind at the end. If Naomi wanted to sell her docu-series to Netflix she would get a lot of money up-front, but she would have no power on longevity. Ultimately, Naomi wants to be in control. YouTube gives her the opportunity to be 100 percent in control. She approves every video, in the "No Filter" series she is picking her guests, she has questions, she decides when she wants to upload it, you know, she's moderating her chat and responding to fans. So YouTube definitely is a brilliant way to break down the barrier between talent and an audience.
J.M. I think after Google, YouTube is the biggest search engine in the world. Something like two billion unique users per day. So there's no question that gives YouTube a certain amount of power. When we see the impact of social media, these platforms can have to shape people's worldview to a certain extent, by the suggestions, in relationship to the algorithms, etc. How has YouTube dealt with that massive power?
D.B. That is a compelling talking point when we're meeting with brands. I’ll back up… so the fashion and beauty vertical is really split within three different buckets. There are brands, which are Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Nike, Prada. There are publishers, which is Goop, Paper, Vogue. And then the last one is professionals, that is models, makeup artists, hairstylists. The Naomi, the Hung Vanngo, and the Jen Atkins element. So when we are meeting with those different buckets of people, the knowledge that YouTube is the second largest search engine in the world is a very compelling argument for them to own their own narrative. We can use Naomi as an example, when you used to search for Naomi Campbell in the YouTube search field, there was a lot of content that was probably populated that she obviously didn't approve, or didn't know. So now when you search Naomi Campbell since she has had success on the platform, her own content populates that search result. That’s obviously very compelling for her.
J.M. But there are other ways that the platform can be reactive to what's going on in the world.
D.B. In 2020, I think every industry had to re-evaluate the way it approaches diversity and inclusion. And of course, the fashion space was like every other. So I am very fortunate that the fashion team at YouTube is a pretty diverse crew and so we wanted to do something to help spotlight diverse creators and diverse fashion voices. We launched this Black Designer Initiative and we approached 30 self-identified Black designers, gave them a workshop out, offered everyone some equipment, and built a shelf on Youtube fashion to spotlight their content. And I think what's important, especially around all those diversity issues, is that people think of them beyond just 2020. So we're currently looking for other opportunities to help maintain the present initiative conversation into the future.
J.M. Well, let's jump to that, like talking about the future. Where do you think fashion is going in its relationship with the digital space, once we’re able to congregate again in the real world?
D.B. One thing that I'm excited about expanding on with the style squad here at YouTube is beauty. Another thing that we haven't really had the opportunity to flesh out is that there's such an incredible creator community in APAC [Asia-Pacific countries]. One of the biggest things that I was so excited about when I joined YouTube was that there was this robust and super engaged and very powerful creator community of YouTubers. And I'm looking forward to continuing to close that gap between what we consider our fabulous fashion world and this incredibly robust creator community.
“On YouTube, people are coming to see a story, to learn a lesson, to reveal a secret.”
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by SIÂN LORI TOOLAN
Photographer SHANE MCCAULEY
Fashion editor SHARON CHITRIT
💭 Harvey Mason Jr. for ODDA Magazine
Harvey Mason Jr. has had a pretty wild ride as interim CEO and President of the Re- cording Academy. He was tapped for the top post just days before the Grammys took place in January 2020. He then spent the rest of the year helping musicians make it through the pandemic via the Academy’s MusiCares initiative, responded to the social justice movement by launching the Black Music Collective project, and more recently he made the tough call to push back the 2021 Grammys show to March 14th, in re- action to the COVID-19 conditions in California. Music is Mason’s life’s blood and he is on a mission with the non-profit Recording Academy to uplevel the industry as it faces the new normal.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
HARVEY MASON JR.
Harvey Mason Jr. has had a pretty wild ride as interim CEO and President of the Re- cording Academy. He was tapped for the top post just days before the Grammys took place in January 2020. He then spent the rest of the year helping musicians make it through the pandemic via the Academy’s MusiCares initiative, responded to the social justice movement by launching the Black Music Collective project, and more recently he made the tough call to push back the 2021 Grammys show to March 14th, in re- action to the COVID-19 conditions in California. Music is Mason’s life’s blood and he is on a mission with the non-profit Recording Academy to uplevel the industry as it faces the new normal.
JESSICA MICHAULT. Your whole life has been infused with music. Can you take me back to that time growing up and some of those strong childhood memories that were set to music?
HARVEY MASON JR. Music has always been a part of my life. Both of my parents were musicians. My dad was a drummer and my mom was a trombone player. I was always around music and musicians. My dad ended up being a session musician for a lot of years. He played all genres. I was around a lot of amazing artists at such an early age. I started taking piano lessons and grew up making music. I grew up thinking that was just the way life was for everyone, but I never really knew how lucky I was to be around such high-quality musicians, artists, and producers. Going with my dad to see Quincy Jones, it was amazing to see them work on projects together. Music is in my DNA and bloodstream.
J.M. Talk to me about the transition of your love to music as a child into it becoming your life’s work.
H.M.J. I didn’t know it was going to be my life’s work. I was an athlete in college playing basketball and I had dreams of being in the NBA. But I suffered an injury that made me refocus. I was always playing piano, writing music, and using it as an outlet for things or emotions that I wanted to talk about. Then when I ended my basketball career, I started to refocus and I started to write songs. It took some time, but I started to pitch my ideas, and people just started to like the mu- sic. I have been very fortunate to work with some amazing artists like Aretha Franklin, Michael Jackson, and Whitney Houston. They were some of my idols and having the opportunity to work with all these big names. Also having the opportunity to work with up coming artists like Beyoncé, Justin Timberlake, and Chis Brown that eventually became legends. You don’t know if they are going to be amazing but you sense something in their talent, voice, and story. I have been very fortunate but always humbled to work with so many amazing talents.
J.M. You pushed the Grammys from January to March because of the COVID situation. How are you reimagining the show, knowing that, I fear, by March we will still not be out of the woods yet?
H.M.J. We knew that March was not going to be a window where we were going to be free of the virus or that everyone was going to have the vaccine. We were concerned about the overloaded healthcare system in January. We did not want to put any additional tax on those people and facilities. We postponed knowing that there were still going to be issues, but we did not want to add to the craziness of the L.A. situation. We have an incredible show, an amazing lineup of artists. I am really look- ing forward to it. I think that it is important that we take the time to come together around music. That is one of the things that music does so well in times like this where we are all over the place, sometimes music can be that unifying force.
J.M. The last Grammys took place in the before times, January 26, 2020. What have you learned from all of the other awards shows that have had to scramble to go digital during the past year that you are onboarding or leaving by the wayside for your show?
H.M.J. More than anything, I really sympathize with anyone trying to do a production during the pandemic. It is work. It is unlike anything that has been done before, so there are things that are being figured out on the go. Watching other shows has been really helpful. We want to do something different, we want to do something that people have not seen before on T.V. We are taking into account what has been done in the past and making sure that we are doing something different. This is the chance for organizations to be really strategic and to look at things from different perspectives. I have tried to do that with the organization and also just as a person.
J.M. For you personally, what music has been on heavy rotation in your house, and what song is your go-to energy booster?
H.M.J. Not any one particular artist or song, but music has absolutely been on a constant loop. I just love music that much and my mood and energy are impacted heavily by music. I love the calming sensation that you can get from the right song or the relaxing energy that you can get from the right music. I also have kids, so they are playing music that they love. They introduce me to music all the time. Music is a constant in every part of my life. I am also in the studio every day alongside work I do for the Academy. It is crazy how nonstop music is part of my life.
J.M. This past year, it has come to light that there is the need for more diversity, equity, and inclusivity across all industries. It is nice to see that the Grammys nominees this year are such a diverse group of artists. How are you cultivating a DEI culture at the Grammys and how did you feel when those names came up as nominations?
H.M.J. I am always nervous when thenames come up, now more so than ever. People look at me like I have an impact on the selections. So I was initially nervous, but I was very pleased with the diversity that came with it along with the gender balance that I thought that we have missed in years. A lot of genres were represented as well. I still think we still have work to do as an organization to make sure that we are diverse and inclusive. We are working really hard on our membership, that is what it comes down to. It is about the voting body that decides who gets the nomination or the win. This year, I think that the voting body has done a really respectable job. Wehave already started to do the work that it takes to evolve our voting membership. It is about 12,000 people that vote, it is music professionals that vote on these awards, not fans. Making sure that our membership is developed and diverse, which is really important to the Academy.
J.M. After 40 years with Ken Ehrlich leading the way, there is a new executive producer taking point for these Grammys; Ben Winston. Why was Ben the right person to pick up the baton and what does he bring to the Grammys?
H.M.J. It has been great, bringing fresh en- ergy and a fresh set of eyes to everything. The energy is different, the outlook is a different perspective, the tone has changed considerably. Ben is different in the sense that he is very team-oriented, which I love because I come from sports. He has five or six other co-producers that work with him and on our side, we have other people involved from the Academy so it is a cool group of people coming together to build this show. I love to work in collaboration. I have made all my music through workingwith other people.
J.M. You are also new to taking the top spot, stepping into it just days before the January 2020 show got underway. What has the experience been like for you to take on this role as chief of the Recording Academy, particularly at this time?
H.M.J. My whole platform was based on change, improvement, and looking at everything we did at the Academy. I felt like we could be more relevant, inclusive,and diverse. I ran on that platform, and when they asked me to step in as President and CEO, I saw it as an opportunity. I saw it as a way to continue to do the work I did as chair and I would have the additional reach and have the ability to really make the changes that I wanted to do. I was sad about the timing of it all and it being that close to the show. I did not want to remove any of the focus of the people that de-served to be represented in the show. But I was happy to step in and saw it as an opportunity to make some needed change.
J.M. Tell me about the Black Music Collective project and how the MusiCares initiative was activated during the pandemic to help struggling musicians.
H.M.J. MusiCares has been around for quite some time now and they have been doing some amazing work year after year. But this year particularly during the pandemic it’s been incredible what they have been able to do. MusiCares is the safety net for the community. It is the organization that steps in when someone needs help, or when they can’t pay their rent, or they lost a gig, or they require medical attention. They have done that impeccably well for many years, but during the pandemic, there has been a huge demand for service and assistance. Music people were really some of the first people to find themselves out of work during the pandemic and will be some of the last people to come back. As far as the Black Music Collective is concerned, it was formed at a time when the Academy realized that we were not able to understand all the issues around black music and we needed help. We needed to be able to rely on people in that community that could advise and tell us how we can do better. The B.M.C. was for me and it was the first organization in the history of the Academy like that. We have our producers and engineers wing that works similarly to the B.M.C. in the sense that they advise us on problems that are going on with producers and engineers but the B.M.C. is talking directly to leadership and telling us what is important to them. It is the early stages for the B.M.C., but we have started some really exciting initiatives, some real transformative and long lasting changes are coming.
J.M. When you hear stats about the music industry, like less than one percent of artists make it as mainstream artists, or the success rate while signed with a major label is one in 2149, what advice do you give those who want to be a working musician to be their career in life?
H.M.J. I can tell you that the majority of the members of the Academy are working-class musicians, they are using and playing music to earn a decent living. A lot of people think of the members as rock stars or pop stars flying on jets and driving luxury cars. A very small percentage of our people are doing that and kudos to them. The majority of our members are just trying to do what they love and appreciate. My advice to new artists and creators coming into the industry is to do it for the right reasons, and that is because you love it and are passionate about music and you can’t imagine doing anything else with your life. The music industry is hard, difficult, and competitive, and there are so many people that want to do it. It is a lot like the NFL or NBA. You have to eat, sleep, and breathe music if you want to be in this industry. It is not a casual industry. My advice is to be passionate,bepreparedforthelonghaul. Be ready to sacrifice and to do anything for your art. If you live and approach it that way then I think you will find success, but that is just my personal opinion.
J.M. What are you looking forward to doing first, once we are all able to gather together again without fear of the virus?
H.M.J. The first thing I want to do is to travel somewhere, listen to live music, sing at the top of my lungs, and dance with other people. I want to be in the mosh pit somewhere in a beautiful country listening to some incredible music. I really miss that interaction that you find through listening to music. Another thing that I really look forward to getting back to is the normal mode of collaborating. Nothing measures up to when you can sit in a room and hang out with somebody and go through the creative process together. I miss that way of working and I miss what comes out of that magic of multiple people in the same room.
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by DOMINIC CELEMEN
Image by RatedRnB
💭 Priya Ahluwalia for ODDA Magazine
Award-winning designer Priya Ahluwalia is giving the fashion world a dynamic and vital new narrative. Her signature menswear line is both a reflection of her Nigerian and Indian heritage and presents a hopeful vision of the future, where upcycled designer clothing becomes a new cornerstone to the industry and fashion finally begins to reflect a more multicultural perspective. A future where sartorial stories are pulled from places and events that don’t usually get highlighted in traditional history books and the voices of those who have been muted until now finally find an avenue to proclaim themselves.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
PRIYA AHLUWALIA
Award-winning designer Priya Ahluwalia is giving the fashion world a dynamic and vital new narrative. Her signature menswear line is both a reflection of her Nigerian and Indian heritage and presents a hopeful vision of the future, where upcycled designer clothing becomes a new cornerstone to the industry and fashion finally begins to reflect a more multicultural perspective. A future where sartorial stories are pulled from places and events that don’t usually get highlighted in traditional history books and the voices of those who have been muted until now finally find an avenue to proclaim themselves.
JESSICA MICHAULT. For the photoshoot for this interview, you’re actually wearing pieces from your menswear line. I think that’s maybe a great place to kick the conversation off. Can you tell me a little bit about this collection and what you wanted to express with it?
PRIYA AHLUWALIA. Yes, I’m wearing pieces from S/S21 at the moment. My collection is called “Liberation” and for that collection, I did loads of research into Black protests in the U.S. and the U.K., Nigerian graphics, and Nigerian newspapers from times of civil unrest. I really wanted to do something graphic because I knew that I would have to present it digitally. So, that was something I was thinking, I need it to translate well on a computer screen. I worked with a graphic designer called Dennis [McInnes]. He is also Nigerian and we worked together to create the prints and graphics. Also, the collection was being developed at a time of lockdown and it was during Black Lives Matter protests. And I didn’t feel that good, I felt despair basically. So it was difficult thinking about how to design something and I think even though it is a really colorful collection, for me it was actually quite muted. It feels pretty grounded.
J.M. Let's go back a bit, I know that your father’s Nigerian and your mother is Indian. And I know that your heritage plays such an important role in how you express yourself as a designer. Can you unpack that a little bit?
P.A. I think it's really interesting because since I've been doing this job I've actually been wanting to learn more about it because I feel the history system and school system are so Eurocentric here [in the U.K]. It completely deletes a part of history from my culture even though they are integral to the story of the British Empire. I feel like since I've been doing this job, I'm much more aware of these things and I'm interested. I take a camera with me on trips when I go to India and Nigeria and what I see and what inspires me. It could be the color of the sand in Nigeria. It's really obscure things that I think are beautiful. And in my 20’s, I've dedicated my time to read more about the history of where I am from and that really inspires my work as well. It's almost theoretical as well as it is being visual.
“A lot of it is people saying that they are glad that there’s someone representing them but not only, you know, visually but the ideas and the things I’m talking about.”
J.M. Tell me a little bit about this past year for you. You were named a “30 Under 30” by Forbes, you have the LVMH prize, you have the British Fashion Awards and the Gucci Fest film, you did “Joy.” There has been a lot going on for you this year when you were ringing in 2021. What was itlike looking back on all this?
P.A. It's been really crazy and I feel really lucky that in this time of a pandemic and when so many people around the world are suffering and with job insecurity. I feel sort of really proud and blessed. I wouldn't say lucky because it's taken a lot of hard work. I'm just really proud that it's been able to come to fruition.
J.M. When I look at your career so far, with your photography book, the “Joy” film, and your collections, I get a sense that you are more than just a traditional designer. It feels like there's a lot of different types of creativity that you're attracted to.
P.A. Thank you, that's really nice to say. I definitely think I’m not only a clothing designer. I definitely feel like my ideas transcend clothes I guess and I think I love figuring out new ways to express them. I want it to grow and become a world where people can experience things and when viewing it become engaged with it. It's like I've really got excited by the ways we can communicate that as well as the clothing. I definitely feel that storytelling, and I like giving people a platform to share who they are. And we kind of do it through the vehicle of a fashion brand.
J.M. Tell me a little more about “Joy” and what you wanted to express with that film, having GucciFest as such a huge platform for your message.
P.A. I've never been so proud of something my whole life. The whole thing was really special. Essentially I got contacted, I think maybe in September or October by Gucci explaining that they were doing a film festival and then they gave us a budget. They were really kind of relaxed about what we did, me and Sam, the director, Samona Olanipekun. He's amazing. We were given free rein. I really wanted to make the most out of the opportunity. So it had to be about something that's really special to me. I wanted to do a film about essentially the universal British experience. It started because I have a certain book I look at a lot for research. The photos were taken in the 70s and it's about a Black hostel in the U.K. and I was looking at the book and was really thinking and I wondered what they were doing now. And trying to get into contact with people that had been involved in the U.K. Black Civil Rights movements. I kind of just wanted to find people who were involved in that and see how that affected them and their struggle for liberation. But it was also about showing that Black love, that family, that joy, happiness, and strength and vulnerability. The film became a love letter to the cast. It really wouldn't be what it was without the people in the film. I worked really hard with Sam. We created these sets around the cast. We had sets designed especially for that family or that person. I designed clothes around them. I spoke with the cast and interviewed them a lot before. While we were doing the process and while we were designing the clothes. I was thinking about ways to personalize them for each cast member. So we had little graphics that were an inspiration for them.
J.M. Are you starting to get a sense, as a woman of color working in the fashion industry, that you are representing so much more than just your brand, and what you do has a larger impact?
P.A. I can say I know I have a responsibility, even with the mes- sages I receive from people, whether that's Instagram DMs or emails. A lot of it is people saying that they are glad that there's someone representing them but not only, you know, visually but also the ideas and the things I'm talking about. People really resonate with it. The main point, I think is important with anyone who is coming up now is that they can be themselves. We don't have to try to fit into the box of what people did 20 years ago. And I definitely think representation helps with self-esteem. It is a big sort of, not pressure, that's not the right word but it's just a big thing.
J.M. I absolutely agree with you. One of the other things you are doing is highlighting the importance of sustainability in your work. Upcycling has been a part of the DNA of the company from the jump. How did you decide that you wanted to make clothing that was grounded in the sustainability movement?
P.A. Long story short, when I went to Nigeria I was going to see my family and I kept noticing that all the clothes there were really obscure British clothing. I learned about this big second-hand clothing market. I learned that 80 percent of the clothing we donate to charity actually gets shipped off to other countries whether it gets sold as clothing or gets recycled. That's when I learned about Panipat, about 70 kilometers north of Delhi; it is the world's capital of recycling garments. And a couple of months later, I got not only, you know, on a plane to see it with my own eyes. I took my camera and I was completely gobsmacked about the sheer amount of stuff that was there. It sounds cheesy or whatever, but it was a life-changing moment. I really couldn't go back after seeing that.
J.M. This last year has been so radical on so many different fronts and one of the things for younger designers is seeing their relationship with retailers and buyers really shift. There has been this idea of taking that power back and going direct to the consumer, cutting out the middleman, and being in control of your own narrative. How do you feel about that shift?
P.A. I've been really fortunate. I have a great relationship with all my stockers and I feel grateful for the support they have given the brand. I think they have a really huge part to play in terms of positioning us and getting us known in different corners of the world. But I have definitely realized it’s kind of a bit dumb to completely rely on wholesale shops because I’ve got no control over that relationship. Relying solely on wholesale means I don't even own the relationships with my customers. I don't know anything about who's buying that product which makes it hard to target things towards them. I think there is power in owning your client relationships. Then you will be able to develop your business with them in mind. I think there's definitely strength in that and that's something I'm working on for this year.
“I definitely think I’m not only a clothing designer. I definitely feel like my ideas transcend clothes I guess.”
J.M. As far as the company is concerned, do you have certain goals or things you want to accomplish for the company? Kind of benchmarks?
P.A. I feel like in the first two years of the business everything happened so fast, taking every day as it comes. I wasn't able to take a break and strategize what I actually wanted to do. It was just always one thing after another. Especially when it was related to travel I was always on the plane. Now I've had time to really harness what it is that I want and be able to achieve moving forward and what I want to be able to do with the brand. That comes in loads of different forms, improving digital platforms and this year we will be getting a new website. It also comes with making some investments I wasn't able to do before, diversifying the product range, and things like that. We defi- nitely got some strategy coming in. I’ve done so much, I've just been trying to get information and learn from everywhere that I can so that I can lead it in a way that'll be successful and also fruitful.
Photographer TYLER ASH
Fashion Editor ABIGAIL JONES
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Images courtesy of KEVIN YAGHER
💭 Alexandre Mattiussi for ODDA Magazine
Alexandre Mattiussi is feeling the love. This past year his company, AMI Paris, saw strong sales as it became a safe haven for shoppers looking for comfort clothing to wear while in lockdown. And he has found himself a new partner in Sequoia Capital China, to help him take AMI to the next level as a global fashion house with a Parisian heart. Matti- ussi is a strong believer in signs, and right now all the signs are saying that big things are in store for a fashion brand built on one simple but powerful premise. Well-made evergreen clothing that you can wear every day of the week.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 20th Issue “There is a Time”.
ALEXANDRE MATTIUSSI
Alexandre Mattiussi is feeling the love. This past year his company, AMI Paris, saw strong sales as it became a safe haven for shoppers looking for comfort clothing to wear while in lockdown. And he has found himself a new partner in Sequoia Capital China, to help him take AMI to the next level as a global fashion house with a Parisian heart. Mattiussi is a strong believer in signs, and right now all the signs are saying that big things are in store for a fashion brand built on one simple but powerful premise. Well made evergreen clothing that you can wear every day of the week.
JESSICA MICHAULT. First off, I guess, congratulations are in order because you just signed a big partnership with a new investor. That’s wonderful news! Tell me a little bit about it. What was it about them that attracted you?
ALEXANDRE MATTIUSSI. I felt they understood the way we [AMI Paris] see our fashion and I liked the way they also respect my mood, my freedom, the way I have built my company over the last 10 years. It was a kind of a very natural way we were able to speak together and we thought maybe we should do a partnership. It felt like the natural next step for the company.
J.M. I was also happy to learn that during this past year, which has been difficult for so many brands, AMI has come through it pretty well. What did you feel was the underlying attraction of your brand that had people still coming back, even with everything that has been going on, that customers made the choice to continue to buy AMI pieces?
A.M. I think we share a very good energy, a very positive energy. We are making clothes for people who want to look cool. It’s not about fashion. AMI is about family, it’s about friends, it’s about relationships, it's about love, it's about good products you want to wear to feel cool, to feel sexy, to feel part of real life. And I think people thought to themselves, “Why should I buy a sweatshirt for 900 euros when I can buy something from AMI which has a much better price and very good quality? And it has a nice logo with a heart with its very positive message.” I think it’s about the energy again, I feel it, but I don’t know how to describe my success. But this is my story, I have to tell it because it can be inspiring for lots of people too.
J.M. I think your message of love and friendship and of well made everyday clothes that have longevity also speaks to the times that we are living in. And there is also, at AMI, this fundamental idea of inclusivity, which has been part of the brand ethos way before it became a focus in the industry. From the beginning, when you were just doing menswear, women were already dressing in your designs. Can you maybe talk a little bit about that aspect of your brand?
A.M. It’s really hard for me to think this way, you know, menswear and womenswear as separate things. We feel with our wardrobe there is no gender. Why must a sweater be for men when it fits a woman? I think the last few years have been wonderful for everyone because I think those boundaries are breaking down. I say we should just mix things because when you mix things, you free yourself. I feel like it’s much more interesting to break the rules in a very nice way. And it makes everyone happy in the end.
J.M. I know that your logo with the heart and the “A” has a fantastic backstory. I know that so many people with their logos research and market test them before they finally decide on one. But this logo was in your life forever, isn’t that right?
A.M. Yeah. When I was a kid, it was my signature so it was somehow meant to be I think. It was written in the stars. I really love the logo. I love advertising. I was born in the 80s with Nike, Coca-Cola, McDonald’s, all the strong logos. I always felt inside of me, that one day I wanted to create my own logo. And 20 years later with my team, we were having meeting after meeting trying to find a logo and nothing was right. At the same time on my desk, there were plenty of sketches with my heart and my A letter, that is how I would sign off on things. It was right there but we didn’t see it. And one day we looked at it and we all said “Let’s try this!” And now it’s a huge success. I love it because it’s very personal. It is part of my life.
“You have to cultivate chance, it’s like a muscle. It’s like your brain, you have to read to keep clever, you have to go to the gym to keep toned. It’s the same for the signs you have to stay very, very aware.”
J.M. You seem to kind of look for signs in your life. I know you put importance into different things, like your lucky number nine, which you have tattooed on your wrist, even the name of your company comes from the initials of your name. Is it true you believe in signs?
A.M. Yes. It’s all about signs. We have signs all around us every day, for everyone. I am very lucky because I am someone who is able to recognize the signs, to connect with them. To feel the idea of something at the right moment, at the right time, in the right place, with the right people. You have to cultivate chance, it’s like a muscle. It’s like your brain, you have to read to keep clever, you have to go to the gym to keep toned. It’s the same for the signs you have to stay very, very aware. I’m very curious to meet new people all the time, to take risks, to go to new places, to listen to music I’ve never heard before. Because this is a way to train and experience this idea of signs that come to me. If I don’t look at them, they’re not going to look at me. To have someone to knock at the door, you have to listen for them. I’m not that kind of designer who says “I want everything to come from me” you know, the megalomania designer thing. For me it is all about teamwork, we are all together. Sometimes I have the idea, sometimes someone else has the idea.And this is great they can share the ideas with me because I encourage them to share that idea and I am not afraid to say “That’s a good idea, let’s do it.” AMI is not about Alexandre Mattiussi, it’s AMI. 10 years ago when I decided to name the company I felt it was very pretentious to call it “Alexandre Mattiussi.” I’m very happy that 99 percent of people who are buying my clothes don’t know me, they know the AMI brand. I’m not the big star of the company. The big star of the company is AMI itself, it’s the clothes.
J.M. One area I do want to ask you about is how are you trying to incorporate more sustainable practices into the ethos of your brand?
A.M. I am very happy that you asked this question because that is something we have been working on for the last two years now. And I am very proud actually, 90 percent of our production is made of wool and cotton and all of the AMI pieces made from wool and cotton have the GOTS [Global Organic Textile Standard] and RWS [Responsible Wool Standard] certificates. We are really working hard to be in tune with this sustainable transformation of the industry.
J.M. You’ve been doing staple evergreen pieces, for a decade and you have also created the codes of your house over that period. How do you build off of these ideas that are so classic, and continue to refresh them every year so that you can keep enticing people back into your stores each season?
A.M. Sticking to the same idea of creating staple pieces is a strong part of my DNA. And at the same time, as I said before, it is also important to me as a designer to stay curious and to feel what’s happening around because the world is constantly changing. You have to look at the younger generation, you have to look at the new music, you have to watch the new films, and all the young artistic movements. When you do that, you feel yourself changing too and it makes your brain grow. I just need to interpret those changes in the clothing. I’m not going to reinvent myself every season. It comes down to the little things. It’s about texture, it’s about the materials, the size of the buttons, the size of the shoulder, the comfort, the lining. It’s all about the details, that is where you find those important differences. You look at a car in the 50s and a car now you still have five seats, windows, four wheels. It’s just the technique that changed a little bit but it’s the same principle.
J.M. You worked for about a decade at houses like Dior, Givenchy, and Marc Jacobs before launching your brand. But there seems to be a tendency today for some houses to hire creative directors straight out of school. Do you feel like it is still important to have that time working for someone else, to make those mistakes and learn at the other houses before taking on a top spot? Or has fashion changed?
A.M. It was important to me for sure, I felt at this time if I didn’t have this experience, I feel like I couldn’t have been a success. Being a designer is one thing, having ideas and creative direction but leading a company it’s tricky. It’s really hard; paying bills, the administration, the government, the taxes, all of that. And the business side of fashion is what I learned from my time at those other houses. I didn’t learn so much about how to make a t-shirt or sweatshirt. But I learned about how people worked together, how a production team works with a design team with the merchandising team with the communications team. So I feel it's important to spend some time learning without the pressure of having a whole house on your shoulders right away, especially an established one.
“I was alone at the office for two months, getting the DHL, making photocopies, answering the phone, doing the collection by myself in the office, doing Zooms with the team, setting my fabrics by myself, sketching by myself, sending my sketch.”
J.M. How did you live through this last year, when you had to stop and take a beat and reflect? Everyone was forced into a “time out.” How was that for you?
A.M. I stayed at home the first two days, three days, and then I asked my legal team if I could come into the office if I was all alone. I was like, “Can I come to the office? I want to be at the office.” So I was alone at the office for two months, getting the DHL, making photocopies, answering the phone, doing the collection by myself in the office, doing Zooms with the team, setting my fabrics by myself, sketching by myself, sending my sketch. It was for me, it was a rebirth, it was like I started again from the beginning. I enjoyed it really. The risk in fashion is to become too complacent to set in your ways. When you start toget money, you start to get comfortable. Sometimes you can lose a bit of a sense of reality, you know. And this for me was really very fantastic, because I was like “Okay. Let’s start again. You are alone now. You have to do a collection. How do you make a collection by yourself? Remember you did it before. Before you had 160 people around you.” And it ended up becoming a very personal collection. I really love this collection because it’s very simple, it’s very pure. I hope people will enjoy it in the stores; the fabrics, the comfort, the quality, everything is really, really simple but very well done. I am very proud of this collection.
Photographer ANTONIO YSURSA
Fashion Editor LAURA STOLOFF
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by EMMELEIA DALIWAN
Casting Director MARGEAUX ELKRIEF
Models FISHER SMITH @TheSociety and YOUSSOUF BAMBA @DNAModels
Hair Stylist NERO using BUMBLE AND BUMBLE
Set Designer JESSE COOLEY / Furniture by MINJAE KIM
💭 Kevin Yagher for ODDA Magazine
Legendary special effects makeup artist Kevin Yagher has been putting nightmares in the heads of television and movie-going audiences for decades. He is the mastermind behind Chucky, he transformed actor Robert Englund into Freddy Krueger for the “Nightmare on Elm Street” franchise, brought to life the Crypt Keeper for the infamous “Tales from the Crypt” TV series and he just wrapped “Bill & Ted Face the Music” where he teamed up with Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter for the third time. Here, he talks about how creating monsters was a way for him to escape abuse as a child, how having a great mentor can change your life and his battle of the wills with Bob Weinstein.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
KEVIN YAGHER
Legendary special effects makeup artist Kevin Yagher has been putting nightmares in the heads of television and movie-going audiences for decades. He is the mastermind behind Chucky, he transformed actor Robert Englund into Freddy Krueger for the “Nightmare on Elm Street” franchise, brought to life the Crypt Keeper for the infamous “Tales from the Crypt” TV series and he just wrapped “Bill & Ted Face the Music” where he teamed up with Keanu Reeves and Alex Winter for the third time. Here, he talks about how creating monsters was a way for him to escape abuse as a child, how having a great mentor can change your life and his battle of the wills with Bob Weinstein.
JESSICA MICHAULT. Can you tell me what got you into this field in the first place?
KEVIN YAGHER. My older brother and I started doing things like eight-millimeter films back when we were kids, before video. And we’d dress my brother up like a werewolf or a mummy or whatever when we made these old films which segued into animation. So we took our G.I. Joe action figures and started animating those things one frame at a time, but it took so long. I kept thinking that there’s got to be something else that’s quicker. So that’s why I got into make-up. My brother was also doing it. He would buy all the magazines and supplies, and I got to piggyback on that. I would learn from his mistakes. Later, when I was about 20, I wrote to Dick Smith. He is a legend in the special effects makeup industry. He did “The Exorcist,” “The Godfather,” “Taxi Driver” and a bunch of other films. In the letter, I sent him photos of some of the stuff that I had done. I did the “Planet of the Apes” makeup, and then old age makeup on myself. He immediately wrote back and said “Listen, I’m going out of town. When I get back, give me a call.” So I eventually got on the phone with him and he said, “Listen, if you are serious, you have got to come to New York or L.A.” So I convinced my mom to move to L.A. after she got divorced from my dad which was in 1983. There’s never been anybody like Dick Smith. He was a guy that would reach out. He’d give all his secrets away. He invented the lipstick that turns up for Max Factor and didn’t take any credit for it. He was just the nicest guy. He shared information over the years with everybody, and tried to help every single kid that called him up. Even if it was late at night, he would always get on the phone. I still miss him.
J.M. Did you take a page from his playbook? I mean, do people reach out to you now, and do you try to help them out?
K.Y. Yeah I do. It’s easier now to connect than it was back then. I would recommend schools, try to encourage people and stuff like that. But thingshave slowed down since computer animations. CGI has taken over. My business deals with monster stuff and it’s gone way down. I mean, I still do Chucky and makeup like Freddy, but as far as big creature suits and stuff like that, we don’t do that anymore. Although last year I made a short film. I produced it with a young filmmaker. She had been abused by her father in real life, and so she wanted to do a story about abuse and how monsters saved her life. When I was a kid I was abused, not sexually, but my older brother and I were physically abused by my mother. We would hide away in the basement, and we would do these creature things just to stay out of her hair. Or we’d go out to play all day, and we’d pee on the side of the house just so we wouldn’t have to go inside. She wasn’t angry all the time. She’d be happy and then sad, show love and then suddenly just flip out. You never know who you were going to get so we were always walking on eggshells. She’s a sweet old lady now. She’s 80. She’s fine now.
J.M. The woman you were working with, you and your brother, you all use monsters to a certain extent, to escape.
K.Y. Yes exactly.
J.M. Do you still want to direct? I know you did a couple of episodes of “Tales from the Crypt,” and then had a terrible experience directing your first feature, “Hellraiser: Bloodline” where you ended up taking your name off the final film as it had been completely re-edited and reshot against your wishes. Did that experience turn you off the idea of directing?
K.Y. I mean, that was just a Weinstein debacle. You know, those two guys, and I can say this more openly now, it was nuts. I worked with some tough, crazy producers over the years. I’ve worked with just about everyone that’s got a reputation. But Bob [Weinstein] just took it to another degree. It was the worst experience of my life. Absolutely.
J.M. That sounds insane! But even if the directing path didn’t happen as you wanted, you still had a huge career as a special effects makeup artist. Can you just tell me a bit more about how that actually happened?
K.Y. Ok, well when I got to L.A., I called up a makeup artist that Dick Smith had given me the name of; Greg Cannom who had done Bram Stoker’s “Dracula” with Gary Oldman. I started working with him. I got work on Michael Jackson’s “Thriller,” which was great. I got to be in the video chasing Michael around. And I was working for Rick Baker. He’s done everything; “The Howling” and “American Werewolf in London.” Those films are what got me into makeup effects. I also worked on “Cocoon” for Ron Howard. It actually pushed me into getting my own business. And eventually, I connected with Jack Sholder who was directing “Nightmare on Elm Street 2,” and that’s where I got to do Freddy.
J.M. I understand that your makeup for “Nightmare on Elm Street 2” is considered to be the best take on the Freddy makeup. Walk me through your approach as you were taking on the makeup of a character that had already been established.
K.Y. Makeup artist David Miller did the first film; and he just put kind of scar tissue on Robert [Englund, the actor who plays Freddy]. I wanted to give him more bone structure, so if you look at it now, I gave him more cheekbones. I always thought of him [Freddy] as a sort of male witch. I tried to make more realistic looking scars and stuff like that. The makeup does affect people, like Robert is just the sweetest guy, joking, all that stuff. Butwhen we started to do makeup, half an hour into it, he’d begin to get quiet, and then he would start getting nasty. By the end of the thing, nasty remarks would just come out of his mouth. It was him getting into character. He would metamorphosize into Freddy.
J.M. Does doing scary makeup ever freak you out? I mean, do you have nightmares about some of the things you have created, or is it all cathartic for you?
K.Y. I have a standard answer to that, which is no. I have night- mares about making house payments!
J.M. You said that Robert would turn into Freddy. Does putting on that prosthetic always help actors get into character?
K.Y. Yes, I think so. And I’m hoping that things like old age make-up will never go to CGI. They have done them before, kind of successfully, but I think it’s important for the actor to wear that because they can go look in a mirror and practice their lines.
J.M. What was it like being back on “Bill & Ted” set again with everyone after all these years?
K.Y. I really enjoyed myself. It was great because I’d done the first two. When they called me up and offered it saying “we don’t have a whole lot of money,” I’m like “that’s OK” and I just basically took whatever they had because I just didn’t want anybody else to do it. In the film, they go back in time and find themselves in different places. One time, they’re in prison and you see them in muscle suits I created and they’re all tatted out. And then they go back and they’re just losers at this Holiday Inn playing in the lounge, and that’s when they’re made up to look overweight. And then we aged Bill and Ted to like 95 years old. It was great getting the whole team back together.
J.M. At one point you stepped away from working on films and turned to TV. Why did you make that choice?
K.Y. Well, I got the TV show “Bones,” and was in charge of creating all the victims, and we did animals on that; we did rats and deer. It was great because I could stay at home. My daughter was still young, still in high school, and I wanted to be closer to home for her, not traveling the world on film sets. It was a really great job as I was always having to be inventive and come up with new things. And each week we would try to outdo the last one. I remember one time a skeleton was found in a big giant chocolate bar or something. Anyway, I did that for 12 years.
J.M. Let me ask you this. I saw on your Instagram that you had all of these faces and masks on the wall. I spotted Charlize Theron, Nicolas Cage, Johnny Depp and a whole bunch of others. Was there a face that you really enjoyed creating a mask out of, and is there a face that you really want to get your hands on?
K.Y. I always get frightened by doing the really old guys. I think, one time, we did Don Ameche for “Cocoon.” And I thought “what if he just, you know, dies in the chair?” He was, I think, 73 at the time. Some people play jokes or will actually fall asleep in the chair. Most people say it’s pleasant; it’s like a mud mask. Do you know the actor Pete Postlethwaite? He was great. And Johnny Depp’s a really, really sweet guy. Nick Nolte, John Travolta, all great guys. Charlize is… she’s kind of like a guy. She’s tough, a little like a sailor. I think Gary Oldman seems like he would be a great actor to work with. He just seems like so into makeup; he’ll come up with ideas to make it more painful for himself. Like in “Hannibal,” there’s burn makeup, Greg Cannom, my old boss, did. It’s one of the best burn makeup I’ve ever seen. I mean, he twisted his face, pulled down his eye, lifted his lip and did all these things that were so uncomfortable that most actors would never want to do. And he is so it, and he’s one of them. I’d love to work with him because he would be open to any ideas that he came up with.
J.M. Besides Freddy and the “Tales from the Crypt” Crypt Keeper, you also famously brought to life the killer doll Chucky in “Child’s Play.” What do you think it is about Chucky that resonates with people so much?
K.Y. I’m happy to say I’ve done these three horror icons. And I was able to direct Pinhead in “Hellraiser.” I didn’t do the makeup for that, but I was able to be part of the film. Also when I was just starting out, I did Jason’s makeup on “Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter.” So it was nice to be, you know, a part of the history of five different horror characters. But my favorite of all the Chucky movies I did was “Bride of Chucky” because I got to do the Tiffany doll as well. Brad [Dourif, the voice of Chucky] and Jennifer [Tilly, the voice of Tiffany] were great. We got all the dialogue given to us. However, it’s seven puppeteers per puppet and I had to coordinate all that. It was kind of neat, I was able to be like an acting coach. All of the stuff you see in Chucky, it was me acting things out for them. It was a blast.
J.M. You have accomplished so much in your career. So what is it that you love most about what you do?
K.Y. I just love to create. I mean, you obviously have challenges. This may sound like a cliché answer too but, you know, I love to be able to take a concept that’s either in your head, drawn on paper, or whatever and then create it. Creating something that didn’t exist, and then you bring life into it. It’s thrilling.
Photographer TYLER ASH
Fashion Editor ABIGAIL JONES
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Images courtesy of KEVIN YAGHER
💭 Harris Dickinson for ODDA Magazine
In less than five years as an actor, Harris Dickinson has played a drug dealer, the scion of Paul Getty, a World War I aristocrat, and a Disney prince. His ability to move smoothly between different eras and genres has caught the attention of top directors and auteurs like Matthew Vaughn, Ruben Östlund, and Eliza Hittman. ODDA spoke with Dickinson just before his big-budget movie “The King’s Man” hit theaters and his gritty role in the independent film “Country Lines”, which drops on November 20th, gets him noticed for awards season. Count on these star-making roles turning him into an actor in high demand with both the Hollywood and Indie sets.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
HARRIS DICKINSON
In less than five years as an actor, Harris Dickinson has played a drug dealer, the scion of Paul Getty, a World War I aristocrat, and a Disney prince. His ability to move smoothly between different eras and genres has caught the attention of top directors and auteurs like Matthew Vaughn, Ruben Östlund, and Eliza Hittman. ODDA spoke with Dickinson just before his big-budget movie “The King’s Man” hit theaters and his gritty role in the independent film “Country Lines”, which drops on November 20th, gets him noticed for awards season. Count on these star-making roles turning him into an actor in high demand with both the Hollywood and Indie sets.
JESSICA MICHAULT. How does the prequel “The King’s Man” film differentiate itself from the previous two Kingsman movies?
HARRIS DICKINSON. We take it back to the formation of the Kingsmen during World War I. It is an origin story but it is also a fresh take on the war. It delves into the politics of what was going on at the time and it has a lot to do with the recklessness of sending so many young boys and women to war in a really dangerous and violent time with unprepared ways of fighting.
J.M. In the other two films, Eggsy is a guy that came from the street and learns about the posh life behind the Kingsmen, whereas your character comes from the upper class and is very much innocent in relation to the ways of the world. What was it like to play that role?
H.D. It was interesting. I play Conrad, who is the Duke of Oxford’s son, so he has been raised in this very grandiose lifestyle and has not necessarily been exposed to the real world the same as a normal working-class boy. For me going into it, what formed a lot of my character was the idea of restriction and limitation. I think that if you grow up with some form of restriction and limitation you probably are chomping at the bit to change that and to see outside of the preset rules and parameters that have been constructed around you. At that time, young men were being defined by their bravery and tenacity to fight for the country. However, in the film, my father is a pacifist and does not believe in violence, so there is conflict. At the heart of it is a father-son story. I think there is a parallel between the previous films in the sense that Colin Firth’s character took Taron Egerton’s character under his wing and mentored him.
J.M. Many of your scenes are with Ralph Fiennes, your character’s father. What was it like working with him?
H.D. It was amazing. I grew up watching him so it’s always a weird thing when you are a fan of someone, then all of a sudden you are working alongside him. He was a real delight, he helped and encouraged me continuously without being patronizing. He has got real bravery and freedom in the way that he works. For me as a young actor, I am still finding my footing so it is nice to be working with someone like Ralph. I felt very safe and inspired working with him. I was constantly trying to listen, learn, and absorb.
J.M. Originally, from what I understand, you were studying acting, stepped away from it, and then you came back to it. Is that right?
H.D. Yes, from where I am from, no one was an actor, I did not really know anyone that did this sort of thing. I didn’t think I was going to be an actor. Originally I made videos and short films with my friends… I thought that I was going to be a cameraman or a director. I was not always overly comfortable with being the center of attention. I used to dream of the silver screen but not with me in front of it. But then I got to a certain age and realized that I loved acting and performing. I was also contemplating joining the military. I was into it, I was doing the Marine Cadets. I really liked it, it gave me structure and discipline. I was a little fat kid so it helped me get in shape, I thought it
would be a good idea. But in the end, acting won out.
J.M. When did it switch from you wanting to be a cameraman or director to being an actor? Was it a moment or was it a natural progression?
H.D. From the age of 12, I was constantly writing and making short films. I was trying to get people to help me make them. I was writing to the local council to ask for money to make a film. I was acting at the same time, I did a play and I just remember having a special feeling about performing. Then I went to college and I still did not know I was going to do it. I was studying English, film, and theater. Then, I got an agent from a show I did and I started auditioning. I was like “actually, this is pretty good. I really like this.” I think it was a confidence thing.
J.M. “The King’s Man” is so action-packed. It all looks so fun and cool but what was your favorite scene to actually do yourself?
H.D. With Ralph, there was this scene where I had to go in and shout at him a little bit. I think it took awhile for me to get comfortable with shouting at Ralph Fiennes. But it was fun and I felt alive. As actors, we would dance with each other in this beautiful way—if you know what I mean. There was so much physical stuff as well. There was this scene where I am running with someone on my back. I literally trained for that moment for four months in order for me to carry a 14-stone man and run with him on the muddy ground whilst there was pyrotechnics going off all around me. That was pretty special.
We shot that about 50 times! So that was really me doing it in the movie, I want people to know it. I am really proud of that.
J.M. What was it like working with Matthew Vaughn?
H.D. It is a well-oiled machine because it is a large-scale operation. It feels like a very free and open atmosphere. There is something very comfortable about that. He is inspirational in the sense that he is an incredible orchestrator. He orchestrates this huge operation in a film where there are multiple different characters, stories, sets, and action-pieces. There is a level of trust and comfortability, and from my point of view, it allows everyone to do their best job.
J.M. We have an interview in this issue with Eliza Hittman, the director of “Beach Rats.” I wanted to ask you about her because you played the lead character in that film and it was your first major film role. What was it like working with her and what was that first film experience like?
H.D. That was literally my first film and I had never been to New York before. I just got thrown into this very specific environment. Eliza pulled this boy from East London and put me into her film which was a very specific and localized film. I think that takes a lot of trust in someone because I had not really done anything before that movie, so Eliza handed me that opportunity. Even now, I feel so lucky to have done it because it was such an important story. Also, the process afterward and doing press, I learned so much. It pushed me into new ways of vocal openness. I think I was really passionate about trying to portray that story and do it justice, and continue the conversation afterward as well. In terms of actually doing it, Eliza is one of the best auteurs. What she did was so beautiful and quietly observed.
J.M. You also played a Disney Prince in “Maleficent: Mistress of Evil.” What is the pressure like having to play one of those? Oh, and I can only imagine it must have been such fun working with Elle Fanning in the movie.
H.D. I enjoyed it and it is something that I will be able to look back on and tell my kids “your dad played a Disney prince!” I’ll be able to say that, and for that alone, it was worth it. I did feel a lot of pressure and I tried not to think about the pressure otherwise you just become riddled with anxiety. Meanwhile, Elle was just so lovely, such an amazing actress. She was so welcoming, and we had a lot of laughs. She is a pure soul, I love her.
J.M. So you have done films set in the worlds of medieval Disney, World War I, and modern times. Considering how short your career has been, so far you have done quite a spectrum of period pieces. Do you enjoy doing period work? Do you prefer modern, or is there an era you would like to explore?
H.D. I enjoy period pieces but there are all these things that you have to let go of when you do period because of the way we live our modern lives and the way we interact in our modern society. It is so defined by advancements in technology, so you really have to take that into consideration. It is a whole different realm and I like that, but I also like doing things that are current. Personally, I can relate more to it. I got this film called “County Lines,” and it is about a boy from East London who recruits young boys to smuggle drugs. He is a bad guy but I know people like that. I grew up with people like that around me. I did not grow up with Disney princes or aristocracy around me. For me, it is easier to go there and play a real-life or current person.
“For me as a young actor, I am still finding my footing so it is nice to be working with someone like Ralph. I felt very safe and inspired working with him. I was constantly trying to listen, learn, and absorb.”
J.M. You mentioned how you can relate to the “County Lines” character more because you know guys like that. Can you talk to us about how you get into the mindset of a Disney prince, or a World War I aristocrat?
H.D. For “Maleficent,” I was doing a lot of horse riding. That became a part of the character; the idea of owning a horse and the regality that comes with it. That informed a lot of prince qualities, but in terms of getting into it, I did not want to try and be this cardboard cutout of a prince. What was fun was trying to find the character. With combat in “The King’s Man,” the script alone is such a useful research tool with the way the dialogue is written and the history around it. Also, there was a book by W. Somerset and it was written in 1911. It was about a young boy who was from a wealthy family. He was well educated but he had a clubbed foot so he was restricted in what he could do. For me, I drew these parallels to my character. It was quite a current and important book at the time and that helped.
J.M. Where do you want to go from here? Is there another era or genre that you want to try?
H.D. I always get asked that but I do not know. I should probably get a list. I do have a mental list. I think it is just about finding different projects from the last. I get bored doing the same thing and I think it is interesting for me and educational to me if I am doing new things. It means I am pushing myself in new spaces. That is really where I want to go, working with quality directors that have a story to tell. It is fun to do different types of projects, to go and do a larger more action-based film is fun; It’s also fun to do Indie and get more into the skin of a character and journey with them.
“I feel like I learn a lot about people through acting, with empathy and stories. I think it just helps me be a better person.”
J.M. Do you have a sense of what kind of style of director that you prefer? Have you found your sweet-spot creatively as far as that is concerned?
H.D. It’s scary that some films you work on, you do not know how it is going to come to fruition. You do not know which take or which lines they will choose. That is scary. However, I really enjoyed working with directors that give me freedom. I love working with a director that lets you know that you can go where your instincts tell you and not just hit the beats. It is not about me or my ego, but more about what we are doing as a group; if a director is not in tune with people, energy, and rhythm there will sometimes be a stilted version of a story.
J.M. You starred in the television series “Trust,” what is it like to go for the same character in multiple episodes compared to doing a feature film?
H.D. I loved that process. I think that it was amazing to have a 10-hour journey with a character. I think spending six to seven months with a character is pretty cool, but with each month that goes by, you become more comfortable in their skin and you do not have to try as much. I really enjoyed that. I mean it was a tough shoot, it was long and I had to be really skinny. That was hard, but I loved working in Rome, living as if it was the 70s.
J.M. What does acting give you?
H.D. I think there are two things. The first thing is that it allows me to escape and I think that when I escape into a character; I have a lot of fun because you lose yourself a little bit. It is like some form of meditation. The other thing is that I feel like I learn a lot about people through acting, with empathy and stories. I think it just helps me be a better person.
Photographer VITALI GELWICH
Fashion Editor DAVID MARTIN
Grooming JODY TAYLOR
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
Filmmaker CELINE HONG
Photographer Assistant PAUL SKULIMMA
Fashion Assistants LAURA MARTIN and GRETE MÖLLER
Special Thanks to THE LEDE COMPANY TEAM
💭 Charles Jeffrey for ODDA Magazine
Creative consultant Steven Philip is the mastermind behind the vintage emporium Rellik in London. He also has his own private archive of designer clothing that spans almost half a century of collecting. That archive is a must see for any true blue fashion lover. And it is thanks to that amazing archive that Philip became good friends with Charles Jeffrey.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
CHARLES JEFFREY
Creative consultant Steven Philip is the mastermind behind the vintage emporium Rellik in London. He also has his own private archive of designer clothing that spans almost half a century of collecting. That archive is a must see for any true blue fashion lover. And it is thanks to that amazing archive that Philip became good friends with Charles Jeffrey.
Back in the day, the young designer reached out to Philip to get a look at his vintage Vivienne Westwood pieces, and ever since then, the two men have never stopped talking.
So it made perfect sense to ask Philip to interview Jeffrey for this issue of ODDA.
In a whirlwind conversation, the pair touched on everything from how the Charles Jeffrey LOVERBOY brand got its start and the pressure of being named the Alexander McQueen of his generation, to how having fun is the driving force behind everything that Jeffrey does.
STEVEN PHILIP. Tim [Blanks] called you the Alexander McQueen of your generation. That is quite a weight to bear on your shoulders. How does that make you feel
CHARLES JEFFREY. It all happened very quickly and I was not in a position where I could completely digest it. I just came out of an MA program and I did not have any money at all. I did not know where my next rent was coming from. When all these things were happening, I was not in a stable position to take on board these statements calmly.
S.P. What did you take back with you to your own label from your time working in the couture ateliers of Dior?
C.J. When I was there, it was this thing of imposter syndrome. I did not know why I was there, but I jumped at the chance to do it. I tried to take on everything like a dry sponge; I was also very excited to be in Paris. What I gained the most understanding from there was the amount of time it took, the attention to detail and how important working with your hands is on every single level. Even if you are not necessarily an expert with making some, it is about attention to detail. It was also about the infrastructure and how they work.
One thing that I really took from them is the idea of if you design a 3D sample, it becomes important to designers. So here we make a lot of them too. We do that now in our own studio; we get our interns to make 3D projects. That method I took from Dior. I did struggle at that internship because I was not very good at sewing. Basically, I got along really well with the woman who was head of the casting so she was like “I will offer you a job because I got along really well with you.”
S.P. Another side of your creativity manifests itself in the fashion styling you do for magazines. What creative itch does that work scratch?
C.J. That is how we met actually. You were like a mentor to me. I was working with Alister Mackie on a shoot which was supposed to be a celebration of Vivienne Westwood. Alister hired me and my friend, Jack, to style the shoot. I remember Alister saying “you have got to meet Steve. You need to listen to him because he is filled with really good information.” So we went to see you and your archives. When you were talking me through all of it, it was this whole world; our meeting had a huge impact on that shoot. In any case, making images for me has always been a part of my creative
process.
S.P. What do you think it is about Glasgow, where you are from, that all of
these fantastical and rebellious creatives come from there?
C.J. There is this thing about Glasgow that people liked to be cultured. My grandfather is a prime example of that. He worked as an engineer for trains but he was an incredibly cultured man. That creates a humble work ethic that comes from working-class places.
But there is this real thirst for culture as well so it makes for really dynamic creatives. I think that is why there is always a new wave of us every couple of years.
S.P. If you were to go back in time, where would you go?
C.J. I would love to live in the late 70s or early 80s. I would love to be in the Warhol type of moment. I think we tapped into that a little bit with my designs.
S.P. Do you think that the pandemic is causing the new generation to buy less, buy better, buy from smaller brands, etc.?
C.J. I would say in my bubble, yes definitely. I guess Depop is a good example of what people are latching onto; this platform that allows people to swap and share clothes. I do not know if the actual message of being sustainable is still as popular. There was definitely a moment where it was a hot word. The pandemic sort of cleared it off the way and now it is more about being comfortable.
I will say a real fine example of a store that a lot of young people are contributing to is the Fantastic Toiles by Nasir Mazhar. Half of the pieces are just things stitched and they are all inside-out with raw seams but there is an energy and intention in that which is so pure, which is validated by having that space.
I remember there was MACHINE-A before it was as big as it is now, I remember going there when it was just on the corner of Oxford street. There were weird and obscure goth designer pieces. There was a sex toy section in the corner of a room. There were these spaces where weird and wild fashion were accepted. When you first move to London and you want to change things up when you just started, you don’t care about commercial clothes. You just care about stuff that looks mental and completely new that you can associate yourself with.
S.P. How has Lulu Kennedy impacted you and your career?
C.J. She saw something in my work when I was in the MA’s at Central Saint Martins. I was actually convinced by a teacher of mine that said to me, “you are not a designer. No one will ever hire you. You are not going to get a job anywhere.” I remember being like “yeah, I guess so.”
Then Lulu came in when we had our MA exhibition. She saw my rail of bright colored jackets and I had my portfolio stuff with obscure ripped papers with photographs of myself and clothes. Then I had a whole other side of my desk which was covered with all the Loverboy stuff like the posters and paint. It is always a big deal when Lulu comes into the MA studio. She usually picks one or two people that are going to be the next big thing in fashion.
She came in and everyone thought it was going to other people, but she only spoke to me and everyone was absolutely raging at me. Soon after, she called me and said she loved it. She asked me if I wanted to do another collection, but I said no because I believed I was better as a stylist. She persisted but I continued to say no.
A week later, I got an email from her assistant saying “Hi Charles, we just wanted to check in on your decision. We thought maybe a good way to do it if you don’t want to do a collection is for you to just do your party. We will celebrate and make that your platform.”
So then I thought okay, I will do it. We basically took my MA collection and remixed it. I did this project where I made some bright acid blue cashmere, then a pair of shorts, then I painted on hundreds of pairs of denim and t-shirts. Then I got my old mates to get their old scraps of Loverboy and I made them into something. It was a day where I was literally like a headless chicken. It was like this mini-Loverboy army that we built, it was so much fun.
S.P. What have you been listening to on loop during this period of confinement?
C.J. I have been listening to hardcore techno like “The Horrors” or something like this Bulgarian choir called “The Bulgarian National TV Choir.” Their voices are a specific type of singing which is so mental but haunting. It sounds like weird witches in space.
Also, “Portishead.” I have been listening to quite a lot of it while designing my new collection.
S.P. What do you want to accomplish with your website, which you just launched?
C.J. We have seen the benefit of exploring an online consumer model because we can extract a lot of information from the client. We also make a lot more money directly which is great. We want it to be this really immersive space. I loved video games, anime, and cartoons. At one point I thought I was going to be a video-game designer, but then I saw people that were making clothes that could be seen in that realm; that made me so excited. I wanted to try to emulate and bring that into the digital space, so I gave a nod to a lot of things I used to play. I have this press start character selection page, and it has this carousel of different looks that you can see. They look like characters that you can play, then there was a whole audio element. The thing that I like about my work is that
any daft or silly idea I have, I can give that a lot of time because I do not work for anyone
else.
S.P. I have talked to some young designers that have said “I just want to be successful enough. I want to have my brand and grow it naturally. I am not looking for world domination.” What is your stance on that?
C.J. I actually really just want Loverboy to be the best thing it can actually be because I do not think I can do anything else. I think in terms of doing another label, it is such a scary landscape. People are harsh to big designs like that and if you have got a big brand, you have got to have really strong skin. Part of me just wants to stay in my own lane because there is no traffic in my own lane and I can just do really well.
S.P. Can you talk to me about the whole Loverboy club night concept and
how that fit into you going to fashion school and starting your business?
C.J. I was working three or four jobs when I was doing my Master’s. I was working in a call center, a bar, and in a fabric shop. I was working a shift in the bar and one of the owner’s younger brothers was chatting with me and told me about this club night he was putting on, on the first of August, which is my birthday, and he did not know what to do about it. I told him it was my birthday and he asked me if I wanted to do my birthday then. I always wanted to DJ so I took the opportunity.
I was living with my friend and I was telling her about the space I was given to do my birthday, and how I wanted to do a club night. I was saying how much I missed the club night scene in the early 2010s when I first moved to London, how everybody used to dress up and how there was a complete lack of that now. I wanted to make a night that encouraged everyone to dress up.
We did this poster and it fell out of my mouth to call it “Loverboy.” We added this whole romance side of things like “come meet your match, but make sure you are dressed right.” For some reason, I painted myself blue which was on impulse. It was based on my drawings; it was just really free.
The night was so popular. My friend, Jack, made these cardboard kissing booths and we bought all these weird balloons. When the first club night was really successful, the owner told me to do another one; I really got a sense of validation from that. So after that first night I wanted to do it properly.
I did a full-on shoot to advertise the next one. I styled all my friends and we took photos in my friend’s living room. The photos went viral online and everyone started to get more and more dressed up each time we did a Loverboy club night. We were taking photographs more seriously. We were doing videos and secret codes. We just got really, really into it and it was a gateway for me to be creative. And I suddenly started to make money from it from the door. Since it was so popular, I could not run away from it. I did not have to work from the call center which was so soul-destroying, so that was another great thing about it.
S.P. Why do you think you are so fun and have such a playful personality?
C.J. I think we all have this bad habit of “prepare and despair,” where we all think we should take ourselves more seriously. That sort of thinking makes me have no energy. It makes me small and slow. It makes me question myself and not move forward.
Whenever I tap into who I am, my authenticity, that really is my driving force. When I am myself and trust my gut, so much unravels and so much can happen at one time so quickly. The reason why I am fun is that it is my creative vehicle to get from point A to point B most efficiently.
Photographer PHILIP ANDELMAN
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
💭 Sarah Andelman for ODDA Magazine
What do you do after you have created one of the most iconic multi-label fashion stores in history? For Sarah Andelman, the co-founder of Colette, her second act is all about making creative and unexpected connections between brands. Her one-woman consulting agency, which she perfectly baptized Just An Idea, is a natural extension of her character. The concepts and collaborations the agency facilitates are all upbeat, original, and have just the right amount of joyful pop. Here, Andelman discusses what she sees for the future of luxury retail, how her life has changed post-Colette, and why she always wears skirts.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
SARAH ANDELMAN
What do you do after you have created one of the most iconic multi-label fashion stores in history? For Sarah Andelman, the co-founder of Colette, her second act is all about making creative and unexpected connections between brands. Her one-woman consulting agency, which she perfectly baptized Just An Idea, is a natural extension of her character. The concepts and collaborations the agency facilitates are all upbeat, original, and have just the right amount of joyful pop. Here, Andelman discusses what she sees for the future of luxury retail, how her life has changed post-Colette, and why she always wears skirts.
JESSICA MICHAULT. Sarah, let’s dive right in. I want to know all about your new adventure, Just An Idea. Tell me a bit about the origins story of your new company.
SARAH ANDELMANN. It happened really quickly. We announced the closing of Colette in July 2017 and very quickly people started to contact me, and I was like “wait wait wait, I’m still 100 percent with Colette until December 2017, right until we close.” From January 2018, I did many interviews and all I wanted was to keep up with the diversity that I had at Colette’s; fashion, beauty, design, art, streetwear. And that’s what I did with Just An Idea over these past two years. Very quickly, projects started coming, different from each other, but a lot of them revolved around collaboration, curating pop-ups. In the end, it’s a lot of connections, a lot of connecting the dots.
J.M. What are the tactics and tricks of the trade that you learned during your years at Colette, that you still use today in your new adventure?
S.A. Obviously on the practical side, a lot of contacts since throughout the years, I’ve met a lot of wonderful people. I think I have a sort of positive outlook, an open mind to say anything is possible. I always say you need to try. It’s not because someone never did a collaboration that they wouldn’t be open to the idea. Maybe they were waiting for the right one. You have to try. Today, that is what I am trying to apply, to try going towards the unexpected, all while keeping something authentic, that makes sense for the brand.
J.M. And you are that connecting factor, that guiding thread between different brands. How do you do that? It really is an art form; the idea of networking, of connections, especially as you are and forgive me if I am wrong, but someone who is rather self-effacing. How do you grow this network around yourself, all while being someone that isn’t necessarily comfortable with networking to start with?
S.A. For sure I am not what you call a “party animal.” People realize I have a very simple rapport. I’m very respectful, and of course, there are a lot of people with whom I’ve collaborated multiple times. It wasn’t just “I’ll work once with you and then move on to the next.” There are a lot of relationships that took time to build. I’ve tried as much as possible to accompany all the brands I have worked with, even if there were moments where I was forced to evolve. I had to keep this objectivity and that is why, I think, I keep a distance from the people I work with. Obviously, my professional and private life are very tied together, but at the same time, there are a lot of people with whom I first and foremost have a professional relationship with. I keep that limit, and that’s what you want.
J.M. And today, if I understood correctly, you work alone? There is no team, no one around you. What has that shift been like for you?
S.A. I feel lighter. I feel content being alone, being able to work as I see fit. Obviously, for each project, if needed, I’ll find people to help, be it a graphic designer or a writer. So for every project, if I need it, I will find it. But otherwise, I feel lighter, more flexible. People who contact me are contacting me for me now.
J.M. You mentioned you have different projects, you talked about pop-ups, of consulting, of accompanying these brands. How do you deal with the egos of it all?
S.A. At the base, there needs to be a lot of openness, of curiosity. I need to be at ease with the message the brand wants to share. I feel, the more different it is to what I know, the more challenging it will be, the more exciting it will be. I am still trying to find myself. I’ll keep doing it while it gives me pleasure but sometimes I do say I just want to publish books or expositions. I’m always on the lookout. Obviously, the brands I’ve already worked with, Sacai or Valentino, were projects where I knew the designers. It was good that there was a specific aim. We knew where we wanted to go from start to finish. I like projects like that.
J.M. It’s also interesting because before, with Colette, it was in the world of Colette, the four walls of Colette. And now, the sky’s the limit in a sense. I wonder, do you like having limits?
S.A. It’s true that our way of thinking at Colette was 360 degrees. I had the chance, with Colette, to control projects from A to Z, from concept to the final result. Today, I realize what a big corporation is and that I can be surprised, like, “Ok we managed to do the product, convey a message. Oh but you didn’t do the Instagram post this way?” And I can’t say anything because this brand has its way of working and sees things differently. So. I always learn from that and the frustration it may create. I learn and organize myself differently for next time.
J.M. Talk to me a little about the “Sarah signature.” Can we recognize your work easily?
S.A. With Colette, we didn’t manage to stay in the shadows. It was very complicated at the time, but with Just An Idea, when I worked with the brand, I have to tell them “don’t put my name down. It’s not necessary. There’s already a lot of things happening.” I really tried to stay, for the most part in the background. However, if we are talking about my signature aesthetic, I think there are obvious influences; maybe a bit of pop. I also always tried to merge extremes together but it isn’t always easy. I would say something happy, positive. I try to bring that to whatever I work on.
J.M. What are your impressions now that you stepped away from it running a multi-brand retail store? Because we know they have been hit hard by the pandemic, what do you think is in store for multi-brand shops in the future?
S.A. It isn’t obvious. When my mother and I decided to close Colette, it was a personal choice. We never could have imagined everything that was to come and we have no regrets because I think it would have been very hard to manage in Paris with the yellow vests, the strikes, and these past few months have been terrible for retail. Even if you decide to go online, people don’t consume in the same way.
I think today for a multi-brand they need to forgo the huge brands that are very available in their own circle. Multi-brand stores must have brands that are not yet broadcasted all over with a real selection. The service is what will differentiate them; the little extras, the personalized experiences, and I am surprised at how much it’s changed. I didn’t use to go to many other stores before, and in these last few years, I have had that sort of disdain that clients feel in stores. So yes I understand why we want to buy online more and more.
J.M. I think there are three big topics facing fashion in the near future. There’s the sustainability aspect, the whole buy less but buy better idea and the direct to consumer shift in retail buying. How do you think those three concepts will evolve?
S.A. It’s been a few years that a brand has been able to directly sell to consumers. Be it beauty, street, or fashion, without the need to go through a multi-brand. They just need to have visibility for their clientele. Sustainability is obviously a priority. I don’t see how some brands don’t put that as a top priority. When you meet young designers, I’m thinking of the LVMH prize and other young designer awards, what’s good is this whole new generation that is just entering the industry now. For them, sustainability is an intrinsic part of their work, unlike a few years ago. I think it will eventually become just second nature to brands. At least I hope so.
Talking about buying less, but better, I’m curious to see how that will continue considering the crisis we are currently facing. You tell yourself you need to save more, that you don’t need to buy something new every week. But when I see how we’re going back to our norm, I think that shopping habits will come back.
I think sustainability has a better chance of staying than others. I do wish and hope people will buy less, that products will be more durable, and I am curious to see how, in practice, it will happen.
J.M. Today, for younger brands, is it better to create that online connection and forgo being in a physical shop?
S.A. Completely! All the brands with whom I talk, I tell them to sell directly to consumers. However, it’s true that for some that means creating stocks in advance when they don’t have the ability to do so. Ideally, you should sell directly without having stock. I think Emily Adams Bode is a perfect example because every piece her company makes is unique. It’s upcycled. There’s this personal aspect to it. They are an e-shop and it is fantastic. So yeah, every creator needs to sell directly to consumers or at the very least offer them this possibility. I find it to be extremely essential, without finding yourself burdened with useless stock. You need to have this choice.
J.M. As someone who has always had a talent for spotting the next big thing, I have to ask, is there something lately that is really fascinating you?
S.A. There is this ABC Crystal puzzle that I really like. They make me laugh a lot. It’s from a couple in Los Angeles and New York. You see, I immediately think of a product when you ask me that question. (laughs). What I did find exemplary during confinement is the people who stayed active, the people who did Instagram Live every day, who succeeded in not being passive, looked at what was happening and became a part of it. I have a lot of admiration for that.
J.M. Time for some more classic questions. The future of fashion for you, what is it? I always say we’re in a state of transition, but today that feels truer than ever, so what do you think about it? Where do you think we are?
S.A. From what I hear, being a bit more on the outside than before, I feel like there’s this clash between Old School and New School. There is a group of people that don’t see fashion any other way than via a show, via a certain traditional way of doing things, while other brands have realized they have to speak directly to their consumers and go to them where they are, not ask the consumers to come to them.
It’s not easy to reinvent yourself, to think differently, and there are so many people in this industry that depend on the shows, of the production. I think that before the pandemic we were at a time when there was too much. You see now brands saying we don’t need this many shows. We don’t need to go all over the world. Creativity will always win but the way it is presented, I think will evolve.
J.M. We agree 100 percent on that. There are a lot of people who say that we need to rethink the way we sell clothes and the idea of seasons. Do you think that’s doable, that we go back to the drawing board, or is the industry just too big to change its ways?
S.A. I think it’s really going to go in every direction. I think a lot of it has to do with how long a brand has been around. I saw recently that Burberry announced an exterior show in September. I think it’s very audacious to announce anything right now because who can predict where we will be in September with everything that is going on with the virus. Today in Paris, it’s back to normal and I hope it will continue like that, but you never know where it’s going to go. That must be extremely difficult for brands; to make plans. I don’t think there will be any single format going forward. I think we can say goodbye to four fashion weeks that followed one after the other. I don’t believe in that anymore.
J.M. Finally… I always wanted to ask you this question because I’m a woman who solely wears pants, why skirts? Why do you always wear skirts? It has become your signature, like me with my updo!
S.A. It’s just that pants do not suit me at all! I unfortunately don’t have a model’s body, so skirts are able to hide certain things.
Photographer PHILIP ANDELMAN
In conversation with JESSICA MICHAULT
💭 Kaoru Imajo for ODDA Magazine
Taking over as Japan Fashion Week’s director was something of a baptism of fire for Kaoru Imajo. When he stepped into the top job last year, with goals to transform and modernize the bi-annual event. Little did he know that his first fashion week would be hit by a massive typhoon. Then in March of this year, with just days to go before the kick-off of his second fashion week, it was canceled because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Now, Imajo is more determined than ever to elevate and internationalize Japan Fashion Week with the online universe playing a key role in its future success.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
KAORU IMAJO
Taking over as Japan Fashion Week’s director was something of a baptism of fire for Kaoru Imajo. When he stepped into the top job last year, with goals to transform and modernize the bi-annual event. Little did he know that his first fashion week would be hit by a massive typhoon. Then in March of this year, with just days to go before the kick-off of his second fashion week, it was canceled because of the COVID-19 pandemic. Now, Imajo is more determined than ever to elevate and internationalize Japan Fashion Week with the online universe playing a key role in its future success.
JESSICA MICHAULT. You took over running Japan Fashion Week a little over a year ago just before fashion week got underway. What was that like for you and how have you gone on from there?
KAORU IMAJO. Well, it is kind of like a joke. With the first one, there was a big typhoon and lots of international press and buyers couldn’t fly in. Then, with the second one, there was the virus. But I’m a person that wants to think positively. I think this was a good experience for me. This past season, I really wanted to do the physical fashion show right up until the last minute, but we are a team. It is not just about what I want.
J.M. As you canceled the March shows right at the last minute, there wasn’t a whole lot of lead time to do the digital. How did it function? Were you happy with the results as far as the functionality and turnout?
K.I. It’s true. We made the final decision at the beginning of March but we were talking with the designers and the media starting mid-February. Some were surprised we canceled, but they understood that everyone in the world is going through the same situation.
Luckily for us, all we had to do is open up our website for the designers. They just sent us links or movies to post on the site so it wasn’t that hard for us.
J.M. I remember when we spoke the last time I was in Japan for fashion week, you whispered in my ear that you had lots of plans in the works about how you wanted the fashion week to evolve. What are those big ideas and have they been modified because of the new normal we are living?
K.I. The last time we talked, I was thinking of our website and our Instagram feed, and wanting to make an app for the fashion week. We’re still working on it and still talking with the government. I think we will get a decision in the next few weeks. Because of the confinement situation and the pandemic, it made me focus on doing those online and digital things sooner and faster.
J.M. There’s a lot of discussion with designers about rethinking the whole premise about when things are for sale, when we’re talking about seasonality. What are your thoughts about all of the shakeout within the industry?
K.I. I think it’s a really good opportunity for Japan Fashion Week. We always do our week right at the end of each season, usually in mid-March and mid-October. By then, most of the buying for the season has been done. I think all the designers are suffering in terms of production.
If we decide to reschedule our week, by moving it to the end of August before New York, that could make a huge difference. If they’re saying that they’re going to schedule Women’s Fashion week on to the Men’s Fashion Week season, it would also be really good for Tokyo.
J.M. What do you think about the blending of men’s wear and women’s wear into one Fashion Week?
K.I. I think it’s really good for all our designers. Since our men’s designers show in July in Europe; if they happen to want to do something in Tokyo, it’d be four months after their Europe tour. Europe has showrooms and it will be too late in Japan. So if the men’s and women’s fashion weeks were brought together, that could be incredibly helpful for our designers.
J.M. What about the e-commerce aspect? What are you seeing as far as that’s concerned on your end? What are local designers discussing with you about their online selling strategy?
K.I. Well, Sacai just opened its e-commerce store last week. Yohji Yamamoto opened in April. So all the big brands that have the money are really starting to do e-commerce. They’re changing everything. Also, as you know Rakuten is our main sponsor. They’re professionals in e-commerce so we’re trying to build a new e-commerce Fashion Week site for the young designers with them in the coming months to help support the smaller brands and give them more visibility.
J.M. Rakuten was signed on as the sponsor two seasons ago. How has that relationship been with them? What else have you guys got up your sleeve?
K.I. Making a platform for young Japanese designers is one thing, but another thing that Rakuten wants to do is a special event during fashion week with us. Right now, we’re talking about something with virtual reality in October, but we’re still four months away so we will see.
J.M. Looking at everything that’s happened, what, for you, is the key thing that needs to change, that you want to change for your Fashion Week?
K.I. I think everything is connected. Getting more followers on Instagram, getting a bigger website, and a bigger app leads to getting bigger sponsors. Then getting a bigger sponsor leads to supporting more designers, and having international designers as guests. It’s a continuous evolution, and I am happy that there is this evolution, that we are always looking for new and creative ways to support our designers both locally and globally.
J.M. I think it is also great that Japan Fashion Week’s main sponsor is a Japanese e-commerce company. To have that local connection with the culture, that maybe Amazon didn’t, and the support of the Fashion Week from such a large homegrown e-commerce entity like Rakuten could make collaborative ideas flow more easily.
K.I. Rakuten is everywhere in Japan. They have a popular credit card, a travel agency, and insurance too. They have everything and that’s partly why on e-commerce, they’re doing really well. The problem with e-commerce is that right now—it’s getting better—but a year ago, Rakuten fast fashion was really not good. The price range was really low.
J.M. So Rakuten needs to elevate itself a little bit to move in the direction of a Net-A-Porter for example? Or at least have a new segment on its site that is dedicated to a more luxury offering?
K.I. I think many of the luxury brands, specifically European ones, were a bit lazy on their e-commerce in Tokyo. I have some friends that work at luxury events and they say they’re looking for a solution for that. But it would be great for Rakuten to grow the luxury e-commerce sector on its site.
J.M. Is there anything else that you want to express about the Fashion Week and how you’d like to see it in the future?
K.I. I think right now, whatever we do with Rakuten, is going to be really big. So I want to talk to you more about it when we have all the information but right now, I think that’s coming out in September.
J.M. What about you? Was it always a dream of yours to work in fashion?
K.I. Well, I didn’t study fashion, but I’ve always wanted to work in the fashion field. I think the honest reason I got into fashion in the first place is that I like basketball. Basketball, and what the basketball players wear, are linked with cool fashion labels. That was how I first connected to fashion.
J.M. How did you actually get involved with Japan Fashion Week in the first place? You were working more behind the scenes for about a decade before you got the top job.
K.I. As a student, I worked at a Japanese brand store for two years, and I know how important store employees are, but I thought “I can’t do this for years.” I was also interested in consulting and I like the idea of working on lots of different projects at once. I enjoy how the challenges are different every day and so working with fashion week was a perfect fit for me.
J.M. For you, what do you think is the biggest difficulty for Japanese fashion brands? What do you think are the stumbling blocks for Japanese brands to have a more global reach?
K.I. I think there are a few reasons. One is simply because Japan is really far from Europe and America. Another is that I think many Japanese designers can’t speak other languages, so they’re really shy when they come up to foreign buyers.
J.M. Do you think it’s because they’re just so shy and not interested in being a global brand? Are they just content to make the money that they’re making in Japan?
K.I. That’s pretty much it, but some designers, like Sacai, were more ambitious to go abroad so some are dedicated to doing that. It’s a mix.
J.M. What is your dream for Japan Fashion Week five years down the road?
K.I. I would really like to find a way to bring more international guest designers to show in Japan. I think it is just as important to inspire the local audience with the vision of designers from other countries as it is for our Japanese brands to connect with the rest of the world. The more perspectives and creative points of view we can present at our fashion week, the richer it becomes.
J.M. How do you want to see the fashion week system evolve?
K.I. I think we need to do better. In the past 10 or 20 years, everyone has been thinking about how to do a better presentation, not a classical runway, but maybe doing something more “out there.” I’ve seen skateboarding fashion shows. It was physical. So there is no one right answer. I think fashion weeks that are a mix of runway shows, mini all-day presentations, happenings, online events, and other things are what we need to do. It has to be a creative mix, to keep things interesting while also involving the online community so that they feel a part of the fashion week too.
J.M. What do you love most about fashion?
K.I. I think the good thing is that you meet people and you always see new clothes, new collections. It is such a creative space and it touches so many other creative sectors too. If you know fashion, I think you know food, movies, music. I think fashion is the ultimate culture.
Portrait by YUJI WATANABE
💭 Christopher John Rogers for ODDA Magazine
Christopher John Rogers has got a CFDA/Vogue Fashion Fund Award on his mantle. His clothing is worn by the likes of Michelle Obama, Rihanna, Lizzo, and Priyanka Chopra, and he just opened his epon- ymous studio space in New York.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
CHRISTOPHER JOHN ROGERS
Christopher John Rogers has got a CFDA/Vogue Fashion Fund Award on his mantle. His clothing is worn by the likes of Michelle Obama, Rihanna, Lizzo, and Priyanka Chopra, and he just opened his epon- ymous studio space in New York.
His work is big, bold, and badass. But even better, everyone is accepted into the Christopher John Rogers universe. For this 26-year-old Louisiana born de- signer, the mantra is “the more the merrier”and that is why this inclusive designer is currently positioned as the fashion world’s next big thing.
JESSICA MICHAULT. How did color and print become your happy place? Because, to me, that’s what your collections are — sartorial happy places.
CHRISTOPHER JOHN ROGERS. I would just say it’s always been a natural thing that I’ve gravitated towards more than anything representational, historical period, or specific era of costume. Color, more than anything, has been sort of what drives my creative force. Seeing the material or even something blowing in the wind like a trash bag or whatever, color really just gets me excited. I started taking art classes when I was really young with encouragement from my grandmother, and that’s sort of obviously where I started mixing colors and playing with paints. Seeing that when you add, you know, red to green, instead of getting black, you get this really unusual brown, which is also just as valid as hot pink. Exploring all of that within the context of a collection really excites me.
J.M. Tell us about what your starting point is like for your collections. Does it involve colors first, or do the fabrics start to tell the story and you build from there? Do you look at a particular era or place?
C.J.R. So it kind of happens all at the same time. There’s more than one starting place, but I work on it in my head and on multiple seasons at once. So I’ll see one color and say “this is great for fall” or if I’m really really feeling it, I’m like “we’ve already established a color palette for this current collection, but I need to add this one color in.” So there’s never really a theme. It is kind of like an amalgamation of things that I’m feeling. Its color, fabric, and visual references may have nothing to do with each other, but all feel relevant to me at the time. It’s really kind of about what emotionally triggers me.
J.M. Are you the collaborative designer, or are you off in the corner doing your sketches? Is it like everybody comes in the morning and you have the line up sketched out and your team executes it?
C.J.R. It’s both. It’s everything and nothing. I definitely always have a certain direction that I want to go to or go towards with every season, and it’s very intentional. We all kind of pull together references and ultimately, I decide what feels right for me. Then again I’m always asking my team like, “Would you want to wear this? Does our customer want to wear this? Does this feel right for us? Are you personally excited by this?” It’s not so much because I don’t trust my own instinct, but because I know that what I’m trying to build is work that speaks to a variety of different types of aesthetics and voices funneled through my creative direction and vision. So it’s nice to have people that you trust to bounce ideas off of and bring it all together.
J.M. I’ve seen you take your finale bows at your shows. They are full of joy and happiness, as they should be when you’ve just finished a collection. That being said, I get the impression that you are a “glass half full” kinda guy. Where does that positivity come from?
C.J.R. I definitely think it’s my family and friends growing up. My parents were always super supportive of the work that I did. They always made sure to let me and my sisters know that with hard work, and obviously the sacrifices along the way, you’re able to do whatever you want. You can make your dreams a reality. I also learned through experience that if the thing that you planned didn’t work out exactly how you wanted it to, it always ends up happening for the best. So I just try to lead with that intention. If it doesn’t go exactly as planned then, you know, at least you tried and you can be sure in the knowledge you have that it will lead you to the place that you need to go. So there’s always an opportunity to look at something from a positive side.
J.M. I was talking to President Wallace at Savannah College of Art and Design and she was saying that you have just been an amazing alumnus for SCAD, that you keep coming back and giving back. I am curious to know why you decided to attend SCAD instead of one of the fashion schools that is based in a fashion capital?
C.J.R. When I visited the campus initially, it kind of struck me as a nice middle ground between the sort of chaos and creativity of New York City, but it still held that southern charm. It had a sense of community that I personally really needed coming from Louisiana. I also loved how small and intimate the classes were. You could really learn from the professors and the people that you were working with. Instead of feeling super competitive in any way, it felt like we were all a big family working together towards this one goal.
J.M. Speaking of self-discovery, as a queer black man, how are you trying to empower members of your community through what you’re doing? I did notice in your most recent collection there were trans models included in the mix. How are you trying to represent your community within your work?
C.J.R. I think that I’ve always just come from a really authentic place. Instead of trying to make any statements, I just lead with sort of what feels right and honest to me, working with friends that have always supported us from the beginning when we couldn’t afford agency models. We sort of looked around and asked ourselves, “Who is just as beautiful and just as amazing as someone who’s repped by whatever agency?” And so, including those people in the shows that we do now just really feels like the direction that we want to go in. I think it is really important because it sort of expands the cannon for what you can expect from a queer designer or the visual language that you can expect from someone who happens to be black and working in fashion.
J.M. I know that before you went out on your own you worked at Diane von Furstenberg, and I was wondering what that moment in your career taught you. What did you take away from that experience?
C.J.R. That time definitely showed me where I wanted to go as a business and also simultaneously where I didn’t want to go. I think that it sort of taught me to build a really strong visual language and make sure that I’m making clothes that are both exciting and accessible while also memorable and pragmatic. It is a way to build a business that will last, and, you know, making sure that everyone on my team feels heard, excited, and comfortable coming into the studio. I really just kind of want to foster a place where people can grow in the long term.
J.M. How are you balancing that flamboyant side of your designs with the more real-world demands that most women have? A designer can’t grow on event dressing alone.
C.J.R. Yeah, so we’re definitely trying to think about not necessarily what everyone wants from us, but what our customer wants from us. At this point in sort of the brand’s trajectory, we’re focused on creating clothes that are really meaningful and intentional. Since we make everything in New York, manufacturing prices here are extremely high.
We have to make sure that the product ends up looking like the price that it will be so that it lends itself to things that are evening, to things that are incredibly special. As time goes on, as we get more accounts, we’ll be able to sort of increase units and make clothes that are more casual, or even more pragmatic. Then we can also make sure that there are prices that serve that end-use. It’s really about slowly expanding the vernacular of what you can expect from this brand.
JESSICA MICHAULT. How did color and print become your happy place? Because, to me, that’s what your collections are — sartorial happy places.
CHRISTOPHER JOHN ROGERS. I would just say it’s always been a natural thing that I’ve gravitated towards more than anything representational, historical period, or specific era of costume. Color, more than anything, has been sort of what drives my creative force. Seeing the material or even something blowing in the wind like a trash bag or whatever, color really just gets me excited. I started taking art classes when I was really young with encouragement from my grandmother, and that’s sort of obviously where I started mixing colors and playing with paints. Seeing that when you add, you know, red to green, instead of getting black, you get this really unusual brown, which is also just as valid as hot pink. Exploring all of that within the context of a collection really excites me.
J.M. Tell us about what your starting point is like for your collections. Does it involve colors first, or do the fabrics start to tell the story and you build from there? Do you look at a particular era or place?
C.J.R. So it kind of happens all at the same time. There’s more than one starting place, but I work on it in my head and on multiple seasons at once. So I’ll see one color and say “this is great for fall” or if I’m really really feeling it, I’m like “we’ve already established a color palette for this current collection, but I need to add this one color in.” So there’s never really a theme. It is kind of like an amalgamation of things that I’m feeling. Its color, fabric, and visual references may have nothing to do with each other, but all feel relevant to me at the time. It’s really kind of about what emotionally triggers me.
J.M. Are you the collaborative designer, or are you off in the corner doing your sketches? Is it like everybody comes in the morning and you have the line up sketched out and your team executes it?
C.J.R. It’s both. It’s everything and nothing. I definitely always have a certain direction that I want to go to or go towards with every season, and it’s very intentional. We all kind of pull together references and ultimately, I decide what feels right for me. Then again I’m always asking my team like, “Would you want to wear this? Does our customer want to wear this? Does this feel right for us? Are you personally excited by this?” It’s not so much because I don’t trust my own instinct, but because I know that what I’m trying to build is work that speaks to a variety of different types of aesthetics and voices funneled through my creative direction and vision. So it’s nice to have people that you trust to bounce ideas off of and bring it all together.
J.M. I’ve seen you take your finale bows at your shows. They are full of joy and happiness, as they should be when you’ve just finished a collection. That being said, I get the impression that you are a “glass half full” kinda guy. Where does that positivity come from?
C.J.R. I definitely think it’s my family and friends growing up. My parents were always super supportive of the work that I did. They always made sure to let me and my sisters know that with hard work, and obviously the sacrifices along the way, you’re able to do whatever you want. You can make your dreams a reality. I also learned through experience that if the thing that you planned didn’t work out exactly how you wanted it to, it always ends up happening for the best. So I just try to lead with that intention. If it doesn’t go exactly as planned then, you know, at least you tried and you can be sure in the you can expect from this brand.
J.M. For a designer, you sound like a businessman. Most designers can’t or won’t take on both the business and creative side of their label, but I get the feeling that is not the case for you.
C.J.R. I like all of it. I mean, I’m a Libra. So I’m always kind of balancing everything, which is a problem because it usually ends up being quite indecisive. Not because I don’t know what I want, but because what I want to do and what I should do are not always aligned. That’s why I take so long, I’m equally as focused on cutting something really beautiful and interesting as I am truly making sure that piece doesn’t just sit in a museum for 20 years. I want it to be worn by someone for 20 years because it still serves them, still excites them, and that they will be able to actually use the piece.
J.M. I know this is the classic generic fashion question but I am curious to hear how you would describe the person who is going to connect with your clothing. What kind of spirit do they have?
C.J.R. Well, they have an incredible sense of humor. They know who they are. They dress just for themselves as opposed to sort of reacting to trends. They’re incredibly intelligent and know that what they wear serves a greater purpose. But they also aren’t afraid to take something that’s super expensive and mix it with, you know, vintage jeans that they’ve had for 20 years.
J.M. Okay and then as far as the brand is concerned, what do you feel are your biggest challenges at this point?
C.J.R. I think our biggest challenge right now is balancing growth, and staying honest to who we are as a brand. Grow the business in a way that doesn’t require us to make things only purely for sales, sort of balancing that and, like, creating things with intention and purpose because that’s why I love fashion.
J.M. Okay, I have a couple of fun questions for you… first up, what are you currently obsessed with?
C.J.R. I’m currently obsessed with Michaela Coel’s new HBO show “I May Destroy You.” I’m only on episode three, but I’m already, like, ob- sessed. Oh, and I am also obsessed with mezcal.
J.M. What is your guilty pleasure?
C.J.R. Double Stuffed Oreos.
J.M. And then what is on your bucket list of things that you want to do, see, or accomplish?
C.J.R. Actually, I would love to travel to Asia, I’ve never been. I’ve just heard really great stories that you come back, you know, a different person. And so I think to be able to go there would be really interesting.
Portrait by JACK BELLI
💭 Niamh Algar for ODDA Magazine
Niamh Algar stars in the hot new Ridley Scott science fiction drama television series “Raised by Wolves.” But the Irish actress, who last year was named one of BAFTA’s Breakthrough Brits, has already made a name for herself for playing strong women who stand up for themselves and know how to throw a punch.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
NIAMH ALGAR
Niamh Algar stars in the hot new Ridley Scott science fiction drama television series “Raised by Wolves.” But the Irish actress, who last year was named one of BAFTA’s Breakthrough Brits, has already made a name for herself for playing strong women who stand up for themselves and know how to throw a punch.
Starring alongside “Vikings” album Travis Fimmel, who was a bit of a prankster on set, Algar enjoyed having the time that shooting a series allowed her to get deeply immersed in her character. Throughout the 10 episode series, there were many great scenes where she showed off her acting talents. But a viewer of the show should take extra time to savor how she plays an early scene in episode 2. When after a plastic surgery Sue discovers her new face, the horror she portrays as she glimpses her reflection for the first time is palpable. It’s almost as if she was dealing with the real-time onset of a dissociative disorder.
Dress and shoes REJINA PYO. Earrings COMPLETEDWORKS.
Algar shares why she’s always been drawn to portray complex female characters: “When I was growing, Sigourney Weaver’s performance in Alien was incredibly influential. She takes control of that entire world and isn’t defined by the men in the story. That planted a seed in my head. And Ridley is iconic for enabling these female leads in his stories.”
Dress and shoes MIU MIU.
The actress also talks about her love of boxing and the importance of working on your physicality as an actor. In fact, because of the physicality of her character Sue in “Raised by Wolves,” Algar decided that instead of sending in a classic video audition of her reading lines, she would get some friends together and film herself boxing and sparring. Needless to say, it got Scott’s attention and got Algar her highest-profile acting job to date—a job that had her spending eight months in South Africa on an arid futuristic film location that made pretending she was on a different planet an easy task.
Blazer, dress, tights, bra and shoes PRADA.
“It was so surreal because I was working with one of my heroes in cinema on this massive production on the other side of the world,” says Algar of her experience on the set.
Shoes TOGA - Skirt SIMONE ROCHA - Ear cuff SIMONE FAURSCHOU
Much will be discussed and debated about “Raised by Wolves”, which is Scott’s first-ever television series, not the least of which is its startling season finale. But one thing is for sure—there will be consensus on all fronts that Algar is an actress who has the talent and the acting chops to become one of Britain’s most celebrated actresses.
‘Raised by Wolves’ streaming now on HBO Max.
Photographer LIBERTO FILLO
Fashion Editor ANNE LAURITZEN
Make-up Artis GINA KANE
Hair Artist JON CHAPMAN
Videographer HARRY CLARK
Interviewed by JESSICA MICHAULT
Edited by ULYA ALIGULOVA
Photo Assistant JESS ELLIS
Fashion Assistant GRETE MÖLLER
Special thanks to EMMA JACKSON, PREMIER COMMS
💭 Sergio Zambon & Veronica Leoni for ODDA Magazine
The date marks the birth year of the brand and the brief for Sergio Zambon and Veronica Leoni, who work on men’s wear and women’s wear respectively, has been to find original ways to pay homage to that heritage. The designers have been in charge of the 1952 line since the inception of the Moncler Genius project and ODDA spoke with both of them about how they were able to create a mind-meld with Moncler that was both a respectful nod to the house and also celebrated their own unique design skills.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
SERGIO ZAMBON & VERONICA LEONI
The date marks the birth year of the brand and the brief for Sergio Zambon and Veronica Leoni, who work on men’s wear and women’s wear respectively, has been to find original ways to pay homage to that heritage.
The designers have been in charge of the 1952 line since the inception of the Moncler Genius project and ODDA spoke with both of them about how they were able to create a mind-meld with Moncler that was both a respectful nod to the house and also celebrated their own unique design skills.
JESSICA MICHAULT. What was the best part of working with Moncler on this collection?
SERGIO ZAMBON. The best part was sharing with Remo Ruffini the idea of collaborating with a city for the collection and his prompt feedback in terms of excitement. It is such a great thing to have a good idea, sharing the ownership, then receiving positive feedback. Also, collaborating with different LA-based creatives, which was very challenging, but it was very exciting.
J.M. The tagline for Moncler is “born in the mountains, lives in the city.” Basically your interpretation of the idea was Los Angeles. How did you rethink that concept?
S.Z. I think L.A. represents the city near nature. You can go hiking in canyons around the city and you have the beach as well. L.A. has this side of mixing city and nature very easily, both geographically and culturally. On the other hand, you have Moncler, which really likes to live in big cities, so L.A. was the perfect place as it encapsulates both city, and nature.
J.M. You could have done anything with this collaboration. What made you want to tap into a city rather than a particular muse or epoch?
S.Z. The first thing that I thought of was, instead of collaborating with another brand or designer, why not a city? And I chose L.A. because I have never seen such a cultural transformation in a city; a lot of things are shifting there. I thought, “why don’t we collaborate with the city to make something creative that reflects its spirit?” To me, L.A. feels very alive and I felt very inspired by that. I met with a lot of creative people over the years when I traveled to L.A., and so it was really easy to have everything come together organically.
J.M. You went in a lot of different directions with this collection and the L.A. based people and brands you collaborated with. How difficult was it to blend all of those into a singular concept?
S.Z. When I am working in creative collaboration, the goal is to meet in the middle; to have a mutual goal and make it possible to create a common product within the seasonal collection of Moncler 1952. We are meeting in the middle of our individual creativity, while still respecting the iconic style of Moncler. It is a nice challenge.
J.M. What was your biggest surprise throughout the whole collaboration process?
S.Z. I was very surprised when I met Aaron Thompson, the designer of AD.iii. While I was at Maxfield in L.A., I spotted one of his necklaces there and I really liked it. I was talking with the salesperson about it and they said “well if you want, the designer is here if you would like to meet him.” So five minutes after I say I like this necklace, there I am talking with Aaron in the store! We had a conversation and we hit it off immediately; it was all very organic. I would say that was the biggest surprise.
J.M. You worked at Fendi for 12 years. What fundamentals did you take from that experience that you applied to this collection or your work in general?
S.Z. My technical foundation all came from my time working at Fendi. What I am doing at Moncler is a holistic approach to building a collection without any limits. It was this idea of collective mixing that I learned in Fendi, so there is no limit. I always respect the heritage of the company, but at Fendi, I inherited this eclectic and fun side of creativity for doing a collection. You start with the “sky’s the limit” and then you start pairing back from there until you have your final result.
J.M. What is your design process like?
S.Z. I attain a final vision by collecting images. For example, when I want to do Moncler with L.A., I want to represent the iconic period of L.A. with the youth movement. I start with the final vision I want to achieve and I envision the entire collection. Then, I go back into the details and go through the technical process. I start with the idea of a style, and what I mean by this is looking at the silhouette, maybe a period, and the colors. Colors are very important to me, they are something that I am working on right from the start, especially for Moncler.
J.M. Do you have a favorite piece from the collection?
S.Z. I like the Ikat green and white printed jacket and the white and cream-colored
corduroy down jacket.
J.M. How do you find that blend between the 70s aesthetic and the modern 2020 aesthetic that you wanted to achieve with this collection?
S.Z. Like I mentioned before, I like to start from a final vision and work my way back. I really like the hippie L.A. aesthetic from the 70s and to that, I added a touch of the 90s and a little bit of punk. I mixed the different tastes together which are related to the city; I mixed it with colors and different silhouettes. You can see the styles of the period but it is never overpowering because I translate it for Moncler in a contemporary way. It is important that you can see inspiration in the styles but it is never literal. But what makes it “now” is the way it is all mixed.
J.M. How has your background influenced the way you designed this collection?
S.Z. It is kind of a coincidence because my personal background is very mixed. My mom is Croatian, but she was born in Egypt and speaks French. My father is Italian but he was born in France. So already I had a quite eclectic start in life. I also traveled a lot and lived in lots of different countries. Also, in terms of my professional life, I worked at very different fashion companies. I learned all about luxury clothing at Fendi and MaxMara, then I learned about the contemporary market when I worked at Acne. The crossover between all of these things in my life, you can see, are layered into the designs that I am doing. It is never one thing. It is actually difficult to manage when I am starting a project. But I know from experience that eventually all of the pieces will come together.
JESSICA MICHAULT. How has your background influenced the way you designed this collection?
VERONICA LEONI. Since the very beginning of my collaboration with Moncler, I‘ve always walked the fine line of contamination between my creativity and the brand’s DNA. I used to do it in a very “raw” and spontaneous way without hiding the formula too well. Authenticity lays there; in the transparency of the process and the way the result can be surprising but recognizable in both directions.
J.M. What aspects of London did you fall in love with and how did that translate into this collection?
V.L. London to me is a special place in the world. It is a melting pot of so many different souls and cultures. It represents a “reliable” source of inspiration and a possibility to be whoever you want to be. London is able to provide the right answer season by season. Now that I’m not living there anymore, I try to go and spend a sort of Holy Week at the beginning of each season to kick-off and renew my inspiration and creativity! Its eclecticism and spirited attitude are definitely what I tried to keep alive while working on this collection.
J.M. You’ve successfully managed to bring together two very different aesthetics to create something entirely new. What sparked the idea to create this fusion?
V.L. Acting with fusion was actually the most spontaneous thing I did when I started working with Moncler. I thought the best way to inject newness and distinctiveness in the Moncler 1952 line was to keep it personal. And I just did what came out instinctively.
J.M. In this collection, you took on the iconic Moncler puffer. How hard was it to give a new slant to such a staple item, and one that is fundamentally linked to the house?
V.L. In a way, the Moncler puffer is a sort of iconic raw material that we designers are then given to rework and reimagine. After you build confidence with it, the rest is freedom and open to endless possibilities. This is what the Genius project is about after all!
J.M. I understand that your creativity is sparked when you push sartorial boundaries. Where did you ride the razor’s edge with this collection?
V.L. Ah, ah very true! I love to push sartorial boundaries! First of all, a sartorial wardrobe is a fundamental starting point in terms of archetypes and references for my inspiration. No matter what kind of fabric I’m going to use, I need it to define a certain attitude and a specific type of femininity. Look 3, 7, and 20 are definitely the outfits I pushed the farthest in this sense. They are a belted extra tailored black coat with stretchy down lining inside, a felted pied de poule wool car coat with a lacquer puffy gilet as the extra internal layer, and a puffy trench coat in shiny polyester satin.
J.M. Do you get to keep any of the pieces yourself? If so, is there a favorite you have from the collection?
V.L. I’m an obsessive collector of prototypes! And yes I’ve got some of the pieces from the latest collection, knitwear included. I’m still waiting to get the full outfit of look 11! The fake fur patchwork quilted coat is definitely my winter statement! Textures and layering are key elements of the way I designed 1952, and knitwear played a fundamental role; the extra lightweight yarns made it possible to create extremely chunky knits. I feel like it gives a very different energy to classical nylon looks, bringing it immediately into another universe. Also, I do love to wear a lot of knit, and I think it is a must-have in a modern feminine wardrobe.
J.M. How has the pandemic impacted your career as a designer, or is it too early to say?
V.L. The pandemic brought up a lot of thoughts on the personal side. Our industry will definitely be affected on many levels but I hope that it will be the designs of high quality and quality projects that will see the light at the end of the tunnel. On my side, I’m trying to stay as creative as I can; thinking outside of the box, and also being flexible and extremely open-minded. It’s an opportunity to improve, to make changes, and restart with awareness and responsibility.
J.M. Tell me a bit about how you collaborated with the initiative GIRL UP for this collection.
V.L. I have known about the GIRL UP initiative and the amazing work they have been doing for almost a decade now. I wanted the Genius project and Moncler to be part of it and Mr. Ruffini welcomed my proposal with open arms. He was very excited about it!
I loved the idea of making the Genius project not just a creative hub for different voices, but an active platform that is challenging the status quo and promoting differences and gender equality. I really hope, as a woman, what we are feeling now is the winds of change. That all of us, supporting and encouraging the next generations, will be able to achieve results which should be obvious at this point, but so far have yet to be part of our everyday life.
Guaranteeing access to education is not just key to empower future generations of girls,
it’s actually the first instrument to fight prejudice, violence, and hate; to build up a
better society where there won’t be any room for that sort of behavior. This cannot be
utopia anymore. We’ve all got the opportunity to be a part of the change!
J.M. What was the best part of working with Moncler on this collection?
V.L. I loved it all! Each step of the way!
Photographer and Stylist GEORGIA TAL
Hair CHRISTOS BAIRABAS
Make-up SOPHIA KOSSADA
Models LORENZO SARJAN, MARKO, ANNE ZARSKE and LULA
Special Thanks to D MODELS AGENCY
💭 Maria Grazia Chiuri in conversation with Alicia Keys for ODDA Magazine
Anyone who has a great new fashion idea knows that nothing beats having Carmen Busquets as your backer. The Venezuela born philanthropist and investor was one of the first to spot the potential of the fashion-tech arena. She was the founding investor in Net-a-Porter and, since then, had been an early supporter and investor of a number of now household name fashion tech brands like Moda Operandi, Farfetch, TagWalk, Business of Fashion and Lyst, just to name a few. Behind all of those investments was Busquets’ deep commitment to creating a more sustainable fashion industry; one that would leverage the data and the direct communication the online space could create with consumers, to help companies make smarter choices that would lead to less waste and more streamlined supply chains. Here, Busquetsmakes some predictions about the future of fashion, shares how being 60 percent deaf taught her how to read the body language of the people she met, and why she likes investing in female entrepreneurs.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
MARIA GRAZIA CHIURI IN CONVERSATION WITH ALICIA KEYS
Maria Grazia Chiuri, Christian Dior’s creative director, and singer Alicia Keys never
met before they connected for this conversation. But from the moment the two women began to chat, it was clear that they were kindred spirits in more ways than one. Not surprisingly, they are both big believers in finding ways to empower women, but they also bonded over their Italian heritage (Key’s mother is of Italian descent), the importance of keeping a journal, and how their work isn’t work, it’s a life’s calling.
JESSICA MICHAULT. As you both have never met before, I thought I would start things off by asking each of you how you first discovered the other’s work. So Alicia, how did you first become aware of Maria Grazia’s designs?
ALICIA KEYS. The coolest part is that a lot of times you admire people’s work and you don’t even know it’s them. I think that is what is so incredible when you see artists in all different realms and mediums and then you get to discover them. My favorite thing is to discover such a powerful woman behind such a powerful brand and essence. I prefer to call brands essences because it is an essence that you create, it is your essence that you bring to it. I love the part of discovering and finding very powerful, strong, creative, magnificent women behind greatness that you love. That
to me is the most fun thing.
J.M. What about you Maria? How did you discover Alicia’s music?
MARIA GRAZIA CHIURI. Alicia is so famous and I know her music very well. I am very impressed by her and she inspires me. I am always so interested in women artists who work in all sorts of different kinds of art. I think that it is really important that women express themselves through what they are passionate about. But it is not easy to do this. I hope that for the new generation of women, they will have more role models like Alicia, to look up to and be inspired by.
J.M. I feel like when you came to Dior you had a very clear vision of what you wanted to accomplish with your designs. But more than that, you wanted to make Dior a platform for bigger conversations about the role of women in the world. Can you talk to me a bit about that?
M.G.C. When I started at Dior, that was a very specific moment in my life because I was 52 years old and I had a certain maturity and understanding of who I am that I wanted to express myself in a particular way. At the time, people told me that Dior was a feminine brand. And I was fine with that, but I wanted to speak about femininity in a different way. That was the real starting point for me. I have a daughter that is at an age where I felt it was important to start the conversation
about how women, no matter what background they have, can still express themselves however they want and that they don’t have to fit into someone else’s perception of what femininity or even being a woman is.
J.M. Talking about female empowerment, I am curious when you, Alicia, felt like you really came into your own as a woman and accepted your power?
A.K. I think that because I started so young in the business, the first time that my first song and album came out, I was 18 years old; I was first signed when I was 14 years old. I had been spending a lot of time pretending that I was clear about what I wanted to do and trying to convince myself that I was strong enough to figure it out and get through it, in this very foreign world. I spent so much time pretending that I was strong and I could do it all, that finally, I convinced myself that I was strong and could do it all. And I was so young. I depended on a lot of people, a lot of older people that have a lot of experience. A lot of times I figured that they knew what was best.
Honestly, I would say that it has only been in the last four years that I actually, truly feel that I am in power and I actually understand what that means. I am clear about how to access it and I am confident enough to not be afraid of it. I am realizing that it is my daily prayer, how to be fearless, how to continue to know what my purpose is.
J.M. Maria Grazia, how do you continue to stay creative when you have so many collections you have to produce every year for Dior, and at such a fast pace? And then on the other side, Alicia, it has been about four years between your last albums and this new one. These creative processes are very different, and I am curious about how you two deal with them in terms of how time can create limits or be endless.
M.G.C. It’s true that fashion is a completely different way of working compared to making music. But honestly the speed isn’t the difficult part. I see every collection as a new project and each one of them is very exciting to me. I also have a team that I really like to work with. Sometimes the timing is very short, but I have to say Dior is a big company that is very well organized, which has helped me. I think it would be more difficult for a young designer that does not work for a company to keep up the same pace. The important thing for me is that what I create is exactly what I want. If you have a good company and brand, this is possible. I am very lucky to be in Dior.
A.K. I truly am fascinated by the extreme fast pace that designers have to keep up with and to make each collection happen. To be an individual at that pace requires a real perspective that is unheard of honestly. I think about that a lot. That is the thing, how do you find your truth and honor your uniqueness when you don’t have time to think about it? You don’t have time. You have to get it done.
I think it is particularly different for me maybe because I create everything. I create the music, I create the arrangements, I create the lyrics and so it does take some time. But I know that is what makes me unique and that is what makes me special. I would say it takes at least eight months to create a body of work. Then you have to create the visuals that go along with it, or decide how you are going to market it and basically how you are going to bring it to the world. Although you have partners to work on it with, you still have to make sure it’s telling the story you want to tell. It is
definitely a long process for sure but I think that is how it needs to be to create that magic.
Portrait by Laura Sciacovelli
J.M. Let’s talk a bit about passion. Both of you have known that you wanted to pursue your respective careers since you were very young. Maria Grazia, you watched your mother work as a dressmaker and Alicia, you have said that by the age of 4 you knew you were going to be a singer. What is it about what you do that is so fulfilling?
M.G.C. For me, it has just always been a part of my life. When people ask me “at what moment did I first realize I wanted to be a designer,” that is always very difficult because I believe that fashion grew inside of me my whole life. I don’t feel that I ever have to work. It is just part of my life. This is how my life is. I was born and raised in fashion.
A.K. Anything you love, I wouldn’t call it easy because there is a level of work and dedication. Nothing is just easy. But you are definitely driven, and you love it. You are excited about the challenge or what you can bring to it. I definitely agree about the passion for it. What draws me to it is that I never know how it is going to come together. I never know how it is going to happen.
Every time, I am in shock and awe of it. So that element of the unknown, and being shocked by it too. There are songs that I have done that are just okay, but I respect it because it is part of my journey. When you actually land something that you realize is really good, you just never know when that is going to come. So I think that is the beauty of it; it isn’t just a given. That makes me want to keep coming back to it.
J.M. Both of you collaborate on multiple levels. How do you balance the all-important collaborative side of things with staying true to your vision?
M.G.C. For me, collaboration is first a conversation. I like to speak with other artists.
That is what interests me, to see other points of view. I think that this is a way to improve my work but also a way to reflect on what I do. I especially like having conversations with other women because my point of view on fashion is that it is something more than just clothes, it is also about your relationship with your body.
Clothes are the first home for our bodies so we have to think deeply about that
important connection.
A.K. First of all, I am so honored to be speaking with you Maria, and connect like this. Collaboration is such an interesting process because at first, I never collaborated; I had one person that I trusted very much and that was it. I never wanted to write a song with another person. I felt so shy and vulnerable because any creative space is precious and too many people’s opinions in that space can really change your direction even if you don’t realize it.
That way of doing things lasted for about six years over three albums. Then I started to become more open to a lot of things, and one of them became collaborations. I wanted to explore what it felt like to be in an uncomfortable space or to work with people that I did admire and see what could come from it. From that, I really started to enjoy it.
Recently, I have started to come back to this place of creating a personal space for myself, because it is really rewarding to listen to yourself and to have your own space and creation. Now I have a little balance to want to have space to create and be with just myself. It is really important to hone your own voice and skills. It is something you have to work on. You have to do that by yourself sometimes, and that has been a really good reminder for me.
J.M. Alicia, this has been a very busy year for you. At the start of it, you debuted an autobiography-esque book and now you have an album coming out. I am curious what it was like for you to write the book and how did that process affect your album?
A.K. They really belonged together; the book and the album. The book is about the process that I am describing of finding the way to yourself and not losing that, but first finding it. So many of us don’t find it. We spend so much time trying to please everybody. But when do you know what you actually think? How are you going to stand in it and hold true to it even when people don’t like it? The book took so long to write, but you can’t rush that stuff.
The album that is coming out, “Alicia,” took about two years for it to all come together, and the book took about two years as well. The processes were kind of parallel in that way. I talked about the music in the book because a lot of it I was creating simultaneously and a lot of it was coming from experiences of finding more of myself. Even when I journal every morning, I find it clarifies so much. When you write things down, it matters.
M.G.C. I write a lot when I do collections. For each collection, I write in a book the
things I don’t want to forget. It helped me to maintain the point of the collection. I
bet that must help you with your music because through the writing you reflect on
what you did in your life and what you want to do in the future. You have a vision
about yourself when you write.
J.M. Maria Grazia, one of the things I appreciate about what you are doing at Dior is that there is a throughline between all of your collections. There are shapes and ideas that are revisited each season instead of something totally new every time so that you don’t get sartorial whiplash.
M.G.C. I have a very specific idea about my vision about the new generation for Dior.
I want to move this brand in the future. Also, even if I have to do different collections, the vision is one vision. My conversation is about the new generation of women. I think we should support women with our work so they can express themselves. I hope when women arrive in Dior, they can relate to the style. I think that many people in fashion made the mistake of trying to impose a certain way of dressing or looking. What I want to do is to not have a “model” woman. I want to
create different ways to use fashion to help women feel good about themselves and
express who they are, not who Dior is.
A.K. Maria, I think that is huge, because we are what we see. There is so much out there that is trying to dictate what is beautiful or current or what society leans towards. It is really beautiful to break that norm and be encouraging of women expressing who they truly are. That is why it is so important that more and more women are taking up leadership roles. Women think differently, they see the world differently. You as the designer of Dior remind me why women should be in creative places and in the places that really help shape the structure and philosophies of the
world.
J.M. In the midst of this pandemic and global social injustice issues that are finally being brought to the foreground of our collective consciousness, how do both of you feel about the future?
M.G.C. It is very difficult to answer this. When I started in Dior, after the first show everyone asked me if I was a political designer. My answer was, “everything is political.” For example, sustainability is a very complex issue because we have to think about the environment, but we also have to take into consideration the jobs of the people who we work with. We just have to make the best choices we can in an honest way. We have to find a good balance between the different aspects. There is
no singular solution because it is very complex.
I think education is very important. It’s only when you have an education that you can truly be free in life. What you learn, no one can ever take that away from you. It’s yours forever and that is a very powerful thing. And speaking about power, power means responsibility. Some people think having power means you can do whatever you want. But power really means responsibility for the other. I think women, we have a different relationship with power. Women can help people understand what true power means, to take care of the other.
A.K. We are in a very transformative time. It is like a boiling pot that has reached the highest point and it is overflowing. There is no stopping it and you can’t turn off the fire because the fire has been oppressed for so long, that there are no more options left anymore. It is a time that is challenging us to be awake. We have been really sleepy and cozy in bed. It is time to get up, get out of bed and ask ourselves some hard questions. How are we holding ourselves accountable? How are we actually
starting these dialogues and conversations that create the awareness and understanding that have been missing for so long, deeply rooted issues at the core of America and the world?
To me, it is time to even the scales and it has been long enough with this deep imbalance of racist ideals that have run rampant. There are so many good people and so much desire to shift that and we do that step by step from a personal standpoint. We have to be conscious enough of what we are doing. It is an awakening and there is a ton of stuff that has to be addressed. We are not allowed to be asleep anymore. It is time to wake up.
All by DIOR, FALL/WINTER 2020-21COLLECTION
This interview and images are part of ODDA 19 “You, Me, And Everyone We Know” published by September 2020.
Photographer MALICK BODIAN
Fashion Editor MARIAELENA MORELLI
Model JOURDAN DUNN
Make-up Artist ALEX BABSKY @premier using DIOR BEAUTY
Hair Stylist ISSAC POLEON @futurerep
Nail Artist KATE WILLIAMSON
Production APRIL PRODUCTION
Digital Operator MATT REAY
Conversation curated by JESSICA MICHAULT
Photographer Assistant JOSH PAYNE
Fashion Assistant SOFI CHETRAR
Hair Stylist Assistant MURIEL COLÉ
Retouching CHARLY CALDERÓN and DIGI ART
💭 Carmen Busquets for ODDA Magazine
Anyone who has a great new fashion idea knows that nothing beats having Carmen Busquets as your backer. The Venezuela born philanthropist and investor was one of the first to spot the potential of the fashion-tech arena. She was the founding investor in Net-a-Porter and, since then, had been an early supporter and investor of a number of now household name fashion tech brands like Moda Operandi, Farfetch, TagWalk, Business of Fashion and Lyst, just to name a few. Behind all of those investments was Busquets’ deep commitment to creating a more sustainable fashion industry; one that would leverage the data and the direct communication the online space could create with consumers, to help companies make smarter choices that would lead to less waste and more streamlined supply chains. Here, Busquetsmakes some predictions about the future of fashion, shares how being 60 percent deaf taught her how to read the body language of the people she met, and why she likes investing in female entrepreneurs.
This article first appeared in the ODDA Magazine 19th Issue “You, Me, and Everyone We Know”.
CARMEN BUSQUETS
Anyone who has a great new fashion idea knows that nothing beats having Carmen Busquets as your backer. The Venezuela born philanthropist and investor was one of the first to spot the potential of the fashion-tech arena. She was the founding investor in Net-a-Porter and, since then, had been an early supporter and investor of a number of now household name fashion tech brands like Moda Operandi, Farfetch, TagWalk, Business of Fashion and Lyst, just to name a few. Behind all of those investments was Busquets’ deep commitment to creating a more sustainable fashion industry; one that would leverage the data and the direct communication the online space could create with consumers, to help companies make smarter choices that would lead to less waste and more streamlined supply chains. Here, Busquetsmakes some predictions about the future of fashion, shares how being 60 percent deaf taught her how to read the body language of the people she met, and why she likes investing in female entrepreneurs.
JESSICA MICHAULT. I remember when we were both on the stage with Suzy Menkes in Brazil at the IHT luxury conference back in 2011 talking about the future of fashion. Now almost a decade later, how are you feeling about the amazing changes you have helped to make happen in the world?
CARMEN BUSQUETS. I feel excited. This is only the beginning. It is a reaffirmation that digital is here to stay, just as I was saying back then. I love experimenting, incubating, and investing as well as advising on ideas that are in the early stages. I’m always looking ahead, envisaging the future, and the one thing I care about much more than making money is creating impactful and meaningful change—especially as a single woman who worked hard for her money and who chose not to have children. My goal is to sow seeds and I know that each time any of us do something powerful, the industry takes note and listens. Once an idea has become an accepted principle for our lifestyle and evolution—some- times it can take as long as 15 years for this to happen—I like to move on to the next thing, but only once the idea has become reality. The secret to new ideas succeeding is more about timing, luck and building the right team rather than about the found- ers themselves and the money. Good ideas never die. Anyone who has a great new fashion idea knows from 2015 onwards. As my activist, humanitarian, and philanthropic work grew, I decided to invest less in early stage companies and started joining the boards and supporting founders who had created their own Venture Capital funds such as Felix Capital, Susa Ventures, Imaginary Ventures, Kindred and Fernbrook.
J.M. Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t that about the time you were launching your e-commerce boutique, CoutureLab? I feel like that was a place where you could really test out your ideas and get clarity about where you wanted to focus your energy next. Is that right?
C.B. I actually came up with the idea for CoutureLab in 2001 and registered it as a business the same year. Natalie [Massenet] helped me do it as I did not know back then how to register the name online. It was an opportunity for me to continue helping emerging designers by including and creating awareness for those who were not part of the fashion industry, and by offering clients the possibility to pre-order or place bespoke orders from them. I had started doing this through my store Cabus (in Caracas, Venezuela), but with CoutureLab I could expand the scope and reach a global network of small entrepreneurs, artists, and artisans working across fashion, lifestyle, and different cultures. The concept was to promote timeless fashion and style that went beyond trends, to tell the stories behind the products and the artisans that made them, and to help empower the communities those artisans belonged to. No one really understood what I was doing at the start, but today I see a part of CoutureLab in every company and every philanthropic organization I am involved in. I closed CoutureLab in 2014 when I realized that if you want to make a real impact—the way I want to—you need to move fast. You cannot have a heavy, complicated structure that slows you down. I decided I could make a greater impact by active involvement in philanthropic initiatives such as Glasswing International, Nest, Pacunam, the Fashion Trust Arabia and the BFC Fashion Trust, and by building coalitions between public sector institutions, the private sector, corporate donors and private donors, as I have done with the World Wildlife Fund (WWF).
J.M. What is the combination of traits you are looking for in a company and founder for you to invest in them?
C.B. When I used to in- vest, I would look for strong founders who were willing to go all the way to succeed—but who understood that, in order to do so, they needed to recognize their own limitations and surround themselves with a good team of people who were successful in the areas they were not. A good founder needs to be willing to listen to the advice of people who have a proven track record. I don’t invest in founders who make their business too dependent upon themselves and if I have already invested in them, I stop investing if I find out they don’t have the courage to create something bigger than themselves because they are afraid of letting go of control. A great example of a founder who possesses the right combination of all these traits is Natalie Massenet. She and I grew up together as business women and she has everything I admire in a founder.
J.M. You have invested in many companies where women were the founders. Is that a strategic choice?
C.B. Most of my co-investors are men so I prefer to empower women founders. Some women think we have already reached full empowerment, but we still have a long way to go. We currently live in a world where it is estimated that 35 percent of women have experienced either physical or sexual violence at some point in their lives. Latin America is reported to have some of the highest rates of violence against women in the world, with six countries from the region representing 81 percent of cases globally and as a Latin woman, it is in my roots to want to help other women. And I know how tough it is to be a woman in the world of financial investors so I feel the need to protect them. It is the mother in me.
J.M. I understand that you are 60 percent deaf. Can you talk a bit about how this fact has shaped you and how you see the world?
C.B. Although I was born 60 percent deaf, I did not become fully aware of it until I was 23. I would often tell people I thought there was something wrong with my hearing but people didn’t believe me which undoubtedly led me to develop a level of resilience in order to get by. Growing up, it also taught me to observe people in great detail, so that I could pick up on mannerisms in order to understand them. I felt a great deal of relief when I received my diagnosis at age 23. Being aware of my limitations allowed me to accept what I couldn’t do and find peace with myself. However, overall, I think people struggle more to understand me than the other way round!
J.M. Your work has reportedly helped to create over 10,000 jobs. How does that accomplishment feel? Is it what you are most proud of or is there some other achievement that you hold dearer to your heart?
C.B. I was able to help create these jobs thanks to a collective effort which involves the found- ers of the companies I have invested in and all their teams. I didn’t create the jobs alone. It’s all about the coalitions we create and the impact we can make. A great example of a powerful coalition I helped to form was when I was working on a complex conservation project in Bhutan with the WWF and we needed to set up partnerships between the Royal Government of Bhutan, the Green Climate Fund, and several foundations and private donors. The project would not have come to fruition without this collective effort. I am not comfortable with the word “proud.” Pride is something I feel for others and what they are able to achieve. In my life I have been privileged to be able to help people and it makes me proud to see them succeed in their mission. There are two particular non-profit organizations which I am on the board of as part of my philanthropy work that have excelled. Glasswing International, which has managed to impact more than 1 million lives since they set up in 2007. They work with disadvantaged children and youth across 10 countries in Latin America and the Caribbean, as well as migrant youths in NYC, by offering them access to education and opportunities to allow them to escape the cycles of poverty and violence they come from. And then there is Nest, which aims to empower artisans across the world by increasing workforce inclusivity, improving women’s wellbeing, and correcting gender and income imbalance. So far they have been able to impact over 700 artisans in 100 countries with their work. A personal achievement I hold dear to my heart was when, in 2010, I chose between the love for my father and the love for my career at Net-a-Porter. When my father decided to leave Net-a-Porter’s board, I knew I would never find a partner who I could trust as much as I trusted him to replace him. It was an extremely difficult decision to make as it meant having to let go of my power in the company and to come to terms with the fact I was 40 and he was 80. Any accomplishment in my life has been thanks to my father and I am proud I was able to choose gratitude and loyalty over greed and ambition.
J.M. At what point did your focus in investments turn more towards sustainability and how fashion was impacting the environment?
C.B. My interest in sustainability comes from the way I was brought up and it is something that has always been part of who I am since I was a kid. One of our family homes is a tree farm in an area protected by UNESCO and part of their World Network of Biosphere Reserves since 1978. I have always been focused on sustainability and I created CoutureLab to address and create awareness in the fashion industry on this issue. I later decided to invest in internet-based companies to give a voice to individuality and because the old retail model was costly, inefficient, and just not sustainable. To become more effective, retail needs to adopt smart customer analysis—like Tagwalk and Lyst do—to have better sell through rates at full price. This is how I ran Cabus and later Net-a-Porter. I have never liked the way department stores in America grew and managed luxury fashion, discounting stock every three months. It was a problem back when I was 22, when I was at Net-a-Porter, and when I started with Farfetch and Moda Operandi. I am glad things are balancing out now.
J.M. Tell me more about the Bhutan for Life initiative and why it spoke to you.
C.B. I have a deep inner spiritual and emotional connection with Bhutan. The Queen Mother is a friend and mentor to me and I have visited the country often over the years, making countless friends that feel like extended family. Bhutan for Life is an innovative conservation initiative made possible by partnerships between the Royal Government of Bhutan, the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), Green Climate Fund, and several foundations and private donors. It was of interest to me because of its intention to help the country balance national economic growth with cultural preservation, environmental sustainability, and social development. It is a strategic and long- term initiative designed to ensure that the country will remain economically and environmentally sustainable. The $43 million we raised for Bhutan will safeguard 2 million hectares of land which will not only benefit Bhutan, but its neighbors and the wider world too. We hope to replicate the approach in Bhutan to other countries, and last year completed a similar project in Peru. In Africa, we are working with partners to as- sess the possibility of implementing this model in Namibia to provide a long-term sustainable future for the communal conservancies.
J.M. There are so many different things that need to be done to help the world and the fashion industry, become sustainable. What areas do you think need the most attention? Where do you think you can help bring about real change—now?
C.B. Recycling waste materials for one thing and growing local manufacturing workforces. This will provide employment in the countries where the brands are based and save transport related carbon emissions. Also, giving back to the artisans that provide a source of inspiration. This can be achieved either by helping them sell their hand-made artifacts, or if you used their culture to be inspired, then you can at least help by funding education programs for their communities, or inviting them to come and teach their artisan’s techniques to your creative workers, seamstresses, or fashion students in the Western world. By expropriating artisans’ craft, we are stealing from them. We need to strike a relation- ship that will empower them by giving meaning and value to their lives and traditions, inviting them to explore ours and teach us which will empower them too.
J.M. The fashion industry is finally being forced to become more sustainable because of the grassroots movement of customers demanding it, asking brands to be accountable. What more should customers be doing to help bring about change faster?
C.B. Customers have changed and fashion needs to follow. Customers need to use this moment of introspection to expand their awareness of what is happening and how the fashion industry is operating. They now have the privilege of technology to access endless information as well as it being a vehicle for them to speak out. All of this can bring about powerful change.
J.M. We are now in 2020. A new decade and already so many paradigm-shifting events have taken place. Where do you want to focus your energy now?
C.B. I plan to continue growing my activist, humanitarian, and philanthropic roles, building coalitions to create impactful and meaningful change that will be good for the planet and a positive step forward for humanity.
Portrait of CARMEN BUSQUETS courtesy of OLEG COVIAN
Coat and Trousers HAIDER ACKERMANN.
Rings URBAN ZEN DONNA KARAN.
Table RICK OWENS, Totem ETTORE SOTTSASS, Artwork on the wall OLIVIER MILLAGOU, “Parasol” Painting, 2016.